Road Racing and Training Thread - Week Ending 5/12

@Renewed Marathoner I tried it, did 3.5 miles on grass barefoot. Had to stop because I was noticing some skin issues and opted to stop before doing some damage.

After running barefoot I put shoes on and did another couple of laps and noticed some form change. I run on my forefoot/mid foot, even with shoes on, but after running barefoot I've noticed that I'm much more gentle when I put my heel on the ground, it barely touches it.

I can see HUGE benefits from running 1/2 miles barefoot, "locking" the barefoot form, and keep doing the rest of the run with shoes on.

Also, my calves/ankles are perfectly fine, I jumped on the rubber track for 50 meters a couple of times and I could feel a stronger load on the calves. I guess that will be the next step, when I'll be comfortable on grass.

Hello all,

42 miles last week. Notable effort was a 4 mile tempo on Wednesday (6:36 - big hill, 6:13, 5:55, 5:47) Nothing else hard, but a tough flag football game last Friday where I had to cover some young, fast 20 something kid who made me sprint the whole game. Was sore all weekend. A good sore though.

Track season is here and I am looking to scald some dogs this summer. Goals . . .

Mile: Sub 4:40 or 1500 equivalent (Current Masters PR = 4:24 1500)

3000: Sub 9:30 (Current PR: 9:43 - but I think it is a soft PR)

800: ??? Have not run one in over 20 years. Sub 2:10?

"It is simply that we can all be good boys and wear our letter sweaters around and get our little degrees and find some nice girl to settle, you know, down with...Or we can blaze! Become legends in our own time, strike fear in the heart of mediocre talent everywhere! We can scald dogs, put records out of reach! Make the stands gasp as we blow into an unearthly kick from three hundred yards out! We can become God's own messengers delivering the dreaded scrolls! We can race black Satan himself till he wheezes fiery cinders down the back straightaway....They'll speak our names in hushed tones, 'those guys are animals' they'll say! We can lay it on the line, bust a gut, show them a clean pair of heels. We can sprint the turn on a spring breeze and feel the winter leave our feet! We can, by God, let our demons loose and just wail on!" John Parker

Cheers everyone.

Hey Bud, I'm glad you found something that might help. I've personally tried the barefoot for a bit, then throw shoes on. unfortunately for me I seem to lose the form and start to heelstrike. So, I compromised and use fivefingers. It works for me(probably not for everyone).

Best of luck, I hope this gets you on the path to success. Remember to transition VERY very very slowly.

Best,

RM

P.S. VERY VERY slowly :)

NJ: That is one hell of a week! Thats all I can say haha

easy: welcome

angel: still cant go wrong with that week even if it wasnt what you wanted.

cyhawk: great week. I know what you mean with runs close to MP feeling much harder than youd think

berryman: glad things are feeling better and youre picking it up.

muebele: hope you get the flexibility to where you need it to be. thats is hard to work on, for me at least.

Another rough day for me. Tried to do a time trial and it was crap. Had no speed, was 15-20mph winds (just my luck). Only did a mile cooldown I was so mad at the time. Came home and made some delicious banana, blueberry, choc protein pancakes with some honey and pb on top. Everything is all better now! haha

Renewed Marathoner wrote:

Grizz, you are 100% spot on.

I hope as the time gets closer I'll be able to chat with some of you folks to see what my target marathon pace should be, especially since my training is a bit non-traditional. If I had to race today I would shoot for 3:20. Does that sound about right?

Thanks for your input!

Well, with my one marathon-worth of experience (and considering I missed my time goal by 7min), I would think you'd have a real rough go at the marathon on 40mpw. I think 3:20 pace would feel ridiculously easy for you through 15mi, and then things would take a turn for the worse.

Yes, could be right. Good thing I have 6 months!. I ran 3:14 on a flat course off of 40-45 mpw. However I did a 18-22 mile run every Sunday, which I think made all the diff. Thanks for the input!

Bonham – Thanks dude. Take it easy having just given blood. Gotta be careful with that. Be sure to stay hydrated too.

Cyhawk – Don’t sweat the pace. Your legs will be back under you before you know it.

john b – Thanks man! Yeah, it’s easy to overlook recovery. I appreciate the reminder!

dcrunner – Sweet Tuesday session. I think it says a lot, how quickly you were able to bounce back from your 10k only 48 hours later.

NP – Awesome race! Congrats on the PR. I always go by the race results. So in my book you ran a 16:36. Sweet prize purse too. Sounds like the competition was a bit stiff!

VF – Good luck!!!

Piachu – Excellent Friday session. I’m shocked by how well you can crank out 200s. I feel like I’ve lost that speed. I see you do hill work too. I’m a 2:2high guy but have a hard time dipping under 30 for a 200 (usually done post-workout similar to your workout format). Any suggestions?

SteveInAlaska – Keep at it dude! My ITBS is starting to flare up a little again so I feel your pain my man. I’m impressed by your determination on the elliptical. Excellent job cross training.

Pablo – As far as the 5k on Saturday...well, I ran like an idiot. I took the first mile out in 4:45… If it makes you feel any better, the first mile of my half marathon this past weekend was a 4:51. I purposely didn’t report that bit of info in my week’s report… You can probably guess why! We all make mistakes, despite how experienced we may be.

Hey NJ,

I know your problem pretty well. If I don't do FAST speedwork almost year round, I lose my speed. And given the fact, that I have just little speed (considering my distance PRs: 8:teens for 3 K, 14:20 5 K), I don't want to lose any of it :-)

My suggestion would be: 1 x per week steep hill sprints. I usually do 5, but FAST. Its better to bang out 5, than to do 10 and make it another endurance workout IMHO. 1 x per week do 1 - 3 200s after a workout. I like to do 2 - 3, so that you have the first one to "warm up". And I like to do 5 K or even faster paced stuff here and there, even if it's just short reps, to maintain running economy. For example 10 x 300 @ 3 K pace or 10 x 400 @ 5 K pace, etc... It feels fast but relaxed. I like this Canova word: "You don't lose speed from training for a marathon - you use speed by not training speed". Even as a marathoner a couple of strides oder hill sprints here and there will work wonders! It's just hard to do it the first couple of times, when you've already done your usual run and think "Oh no, this hill sprints will kill me" :)

Haha... *"you lose speed by not training speed" it should be ;)

goal: sub 75 half on 5/26, and 4:30s mile in june, and 2:39 marathon in august.

my week:

M 8 easy (7:07)

T 12 w/ 4x2k in 6:38 (5:19/mi)(10k pace)

W 4 a.m., 5 p.m. 7:30s for both

Th 7.5 easy, feeling a little mentally out of it

F 9 w/ 4x400 (68) 4x300 (49) 4x200 (31). good workout

Sa 4 easy, planned for double but ended up DNFing a beer mile

Su 10 w/ 3.5 barefoot which felt nice

60 total, kind of low for me but I needed the time off

week went well for workouts but I didn't feel good on my easy days. burnt out maybe? watched a track meet at Oxy on sunday, if only it were next weekend instead!

as I am already mostly done with this week (didnt see this post, my bad), here's what iv'e done this week so far

M 9 easy on trails w/ hills

T 13 w/ 10k tempo in 35:09, unofficial PR. right at HM pace

W 7 easy (7:02) feeling oddly fresh

T 8 easy (7:15) not as fresh but okay

tomorrow is 10-12x300m in 50-51 with short recoveries. goal is to nail the paces, not to go overboard

Been awhile since I was in here. Recognize some old folks, and see some new faces (or names for that matter). I can say that work has been rewarding lately, but it has also taken it's toll on me this year, hence my running being somewhat... how should I say this... "non-existent". On a more positive note however, I now have a chance to throttle back a little at work and get myself back into the running routine again. Started this week off pretty easy, but did enjoy cranking up the engine again. I do miss the racing scene.

i like the: goal is to nail the paces sentiment

it seems to be understated, or i seem to overlook it

keep with it

yeah, i feel better about consistency of pace than i do when i close hard. it seems to work, as in workouts with my team i usually work up through the pack as we go.

pablo, are you the same "competitive jerk" i know from RWOL a couple years ago? fancy seeing you here.

Thanks to everyone for all the thoughtful and supportive comments about my wife starting a running plan (and it's official, as she registered on Wednesday for the November Philly Half). I mention something in passing, and everyone jumps on board with support. It amazes on a weekly basis how positive everyone on this thread is.

Just to clear up one detail, it is not the same Philly Half that I am thinking about running. There is the Philly Distance Run (aka Rock N Roll) in September, on a flat fast course, and then there is the slightly hillier half-marathon in conjuction with the first half of the Philadelphia Marathon course in November. She's doing the latter.

I am meeting with my coach today to discuss my Fall plans in more detail. I may do some faster stuff (5ks, 10ks) or target a different race distance. My coach is real big on thinking long-term (2-3 years and further) and planning on what it takes to meet long-term marathon potential, not short-term racing potential. So what I am saying is I don't know exactly what I'm doing yet, but I completely trust him. :)

I am following the strategy of some others and breaking up my comments page-by-page, kind of like breaking up a mile into quarters or a marathon into 10ks. I am getting ready to head out for an early AM run so I don't expect to get further than round 1 right now. :)

cmm268 - you are building up a really nice base after Boston...solid week.

Gmuze - sounds like you have been having fun lately...good for you.

VF Runner - best of luck this weekend! I am interested to see if you decided to use a version of the cyhawk taper method and, if so, what your thoughts are about it. I am also interested to see how the short turnaround plays out for you...FWIW, I think you did everything right in between your two races. Godspeed!

Pikachu - absolutely fanstastic week for you! Lots of great quality in there without overdoing it. Like you, I fancy how great that 2x5k session felt for you. Very good sign of the work you have been putting in.

dcrunner - I think you have certainly got 16:30 5k ability in you right now. I am sure training with a faster group will only help your running progress in the future. Best wishes.

xenonscreams - Really nice transition week for you. Any specific goal times you are chasing on the track this summer, or just having fun with the change of pace?

NP1112 - congrats on the 5K PR and the $50! Like you, I think you definitely have much faster 5K potential with better conditions, plus it's not like you have been doing a lot of specific work.

Slartzio - sorry to hear about the shin pain. Hope you find that long-term remedy.

Ghola - welcome back! Hope you are able to work through that tendonitis...I know that could be a nagger of an injury.

StevenJ - bummer about not getting into the Swarthmore meet, as you are definitely fit right now. Very nice metric step-down workout. If you are able to add NJ truth as a training partner, I am sure he will make you step up your game!

Edgemont Dave - best of luck this weekend! Like VF Runner, your post-Boston training has been promising.

grizz - terrific running last week! I am a big fan of those alternating sessions and you really nailed the one on Friday. As far as the mileage posting mishap, blame it on your recovery malty beverage. :)

printer - feel better, man. My week kind of started the same way this week. Better days will come. :)

Round Two:

SteveinAlaska - cross-training sounds like it is going well. Glad to hear you are improving. And FWIW, I still have a few kinks in the armor despite taking two weeks off, so I will be visiting my massage therapist today. I think its just the nature of the marathon that forces our bodies to take a step back for a little bit when our minds keep wanting to move forward. :)

Renewed Marathoner - are there any local coaches you can turn to for advice, or any running groups you could latch onto who have had success for runners at your fitness level? While I have developed well enough on my own, finding the right coach has allowed me to look at my training through another perspective and has so far taken me to greater success without injury.

Reg Fields - you just keep mowing everything down, another great week for you!

Bonham - solid ladder workout, especially with the immovable hurdles in the way. I suppose there's a metaphor for life in there somewhere. :)

Rushed - It's been unseasonably cool so far this spring in the Northeast. I am sure I would have melted if I was suddenly thrown into 90 degree temps right now, too. Good call on backing off rather than frying yourself.

themack - I know that Delaware course is hilly - still a solid time for you, especially with that exhaustive driving!

pablo - the double jogging stroller is definitely reserved for runs that don't leave my neighborhood! I can't imagine much more than 3-5 miles of that thing. :) Congrats on the 5K win.

Team Bartowksi - hope your season of illness is on the way out, it's been a rough go for a couple weeks for you. Hope you fared well at the 5k yesterday.

King hobbyjogger - nice work on the sub-18:00! I am sure you could have gone a little faster without fighting the cold during the week and having a little better pacing.

Round Three:

NJ Truth - I'll let you know when the day comes that I can run a half-marathon at marathon pace "just for fun" on the day after I raced a strong 10k...Jesus!

easy weeks - welcome aboard! Looks like you are off to a nice start building a base. Your PR times from a decade ago are just about where I am at now, or where I hope to be again this summer/fall after recovering from my recent marathon. As my coach always tells me, look ahead to where you realistically expect to be in 3 years, 2 years, 1 year, 6 months, and then work backward to get to each of those milestones. Then you don't have to be so fixated about where you are at here and now. Good luck.

The Angel of Death - I would agree with your assessment of the week. You still have a month until that 10k, so I wouldn't sweat it.

cyhawk - I think your quality for the week was fine, especially your 600s session. I think at this point you should be okay with just introducing the faster stuff again, and then extending it out as you get closer to Philly. The pop will come back.

john berryman - wow, pretty consistent running there. Is your internal clock that good or were you intentionally running those paces by GPS?

muebele - there's going to be lots of Boston dreaming this summer...good luck to feeling better and hitting your goal! :)