said88 wrote:
Interesting "facts" you are dealing with. In his 3:32,35 Bekele has not opened in 53 seconds (in fact, over 54). Also at 800m he was significantly slower (1:52,4) than what you have written. So my question: why are you writing this?
I'm writing this because that's what I saw in the video of the race. It looks like he ran 53-high and 1:51 for his first two laps. Why are you writing what you are writing?
jewbacka wrote:
He should have?
No, I don't think "he should have". 3000m is just not his best distance, that's the simple answer to your question. After his wonderful performances in the 5k and 10k early in his career, I have expected something like 7:24 from him, definitely not 7:20. 7:25,79 is good for him, but not great I would say.
But El Guerrouj should have come even closer than he did to the 3k record...
jwjwj wrote:
said88 wrote:Interesting "facts" you are dealing with. In his 3:32,35 Bekele has not opened in 53 seconds (in fact, over 54). Also at 800m he was significantly slower (1:52,4) than what you have written. So my question: why are you writing this?
I'm writing this because that's what I saw in the video of the race. It looks like he ran 53-high and 1:51 for his first two laps. Why are you writing what you are writing?
Ah - 53-HIGH!! But even this is wrong, it was over 54. And you really saw 1:51?
For sure I must accept this, also it's astonishing since it clearly was well over 1:52, even without checking very carefully.
Bekeles finish in this race was good, but for him not so special.
I mention in another thread that I think Bekele's outdoor world record 5k is more impressive than--it was either Komen's outdoor 3k or 2-mile, can't remember which.
Because for one of those races, Komen was paced most of the way, whereas Bekele had to run most of his world record run by himself.
A fact is a true statement. But it has to be specified sufficiently to have a clear meaning. To state that they are not comparable is not to make a sufficiently determinate statement to be called a fact. For instance, they are comparable in that they are humans, men, distance runners, competed concurrently for a few years in the 2000s, etc. So, you would have to say in what way they are comparable and that would have to be true for it to be a factual statement.
This is your rhetorical question:
"How does any of that make him relevant?"
This is a question that makes an assertion and you give no evidence beyond it. That makes it a rhetorical question.
I watch the video of Kenenisa's 1500 race.
It looks like his first 400m was 53 high or 54 low.
800m looked around 1:52 flat.
There's no need for everybody to lose their sh*t over a second.
Back to the original topic though, has everybody forgotten that Kenenisa also ran 4:49.99 for the 2000m and 8:04.35 for the 2 mile indoors? What would that convert to for the 1500m outdoors? If it's anything close to 3:30, there's no reason to think he couldn't have cracked 7:20 if he had tried.
But in any case, 7:25 isn't exactly a time to be disappointed about.
Fact: Bekele 1500 PR is 3:32, Komen's is 3:29. That is a 3 second spread. You put it at one to two seconds despite my having informed you of the times. That is a lie.
Your lack of logic; Proclaiming that El G and Morceli are irrelevant to my assertion that Bekele's 1500 times were inferior to all those people ahead of him on the 3000 list.
jwjwj wrote:
You have provided nothing that what I'm saying is wrong. I have provided the source for my thoughts. You have not. As far as I can tell, what I said is correct. You saying "you are wrong" doesn't change that. What you say is meaningless unless you back it up with evidence.
Wow. You have provided the source? Well, I think the video of the race is not such a bad source. What do you need more? When the leader is going through the 400m mark in 53,46 and the 800m mark in 1:51,70 - how is it posible that Bekele has passed these marks in "53" and "1:51"? He was well behind the leader on both occasions - his times were definitely over 54 (at best 54,0) and well over 1:52.
And for sure - to the other poster - "53 seconds" (something like 52,8 to 53,3) or over 54 is a big difference in such a race.
It was a fast start, but inside the normal limit.
ah you guys arguing over petty crap, don't you know this discussion has been carried out on these message boards in previous threads more than a couple times? haha. People comparing Komen and Bekele, talking about Bekele's speed, and talking about closing speed of distance runners. Someone should do the courtesy of retrieving some of the message board threads
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4143905
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4963404&page=2
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=3370165
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4807228&page=5
there are also more threads i can count on which distance world record is the most impressive... sometimes limited to outdoor records, track records, or one gender or both genders. ah....
said88 wrote:
When the leader is going through the 400m mark in 53,46 and the 800m mark in 1:51,70 - how is it posible that Bekele has passed these marks in "53" and "1:51"?
It was a fast start, but inside the normal limit.
It's very possible that Bekele ran 53.x and 1:51.x because 0.54 and 0.30 seconds is enough time when the runners are running in a single line at a fast speed.
It was a fast start for someone who is not a 3:26 runner. That means that he could have run faster if he had started slower.
Relax.
someday someone should categorize and organize all the existing archived threads on letsrun into a library and knowledge base, that would be pretty cool
jwjwj wrote:
said88 wrote:When the leader is going through the 400m mark in 53,46 and the 800m mark in 1:51,70 - how is it posible that Bekele has passed these marks in "53" and "1:51"?
It was a fast start, but inside the normal limit.
It's very possible that Bekele ran 53.x and 1:51.x because 0.54 and 0.30 seconds is enough time when the runners are running in a single line at a fast speed.
It was a fast start for someone who is not a 3:26 runner. That means that he could have run faster if he had started slower.
Relax.
I will never understand people like you. No, it's not possible that Bekele has run the times which - in your opinion - will coincide with your original statement about the times (which they don't do).
Maybe Bekeles start was more on the fast side - but still nothing which should lead to the conclusion that he could have run significantly faster - maybe a few tenths, but not more.
ScottEvil wrote:
Ventolin, what about Nicholas Kemboi on his best day? Wikipedia has his 800 PR at 1:46 and his 10k at 26:30 (of course he ran those three years apart). For someone in 1:46/26:30 shape, what 3k and mile could we expect? (I'd say he'd need better 10k speed to be within 3 seconds of the 5k WR but that's a guess).
The man who ran 1:46 is NOT the same man who ran 26:30.
Good Wigins wrote:
[quote]ScottEvil wrote:
Ventolin, what about Nicholas Kemboi on his best day?
The man who ran 1:46 is NOT the same man who ran 26:30.
What?
Good Wigins wrote:
ScottEvil wrote:Ventolin, what about Nicholas Kemboi on his best day? Wikipedia has his 800 PR at 1:46 and his 10k at 26:30 (of course he ran those three years apart). For someone in 1:46/26:30 shape, what 3k and mile could we expect? (I'd say he'd need better 10k speed to be within 3 seconds of the 5k WR but that's a guess).
The man who ran 1:46 is NOT the same man who ran 26:30.
There is only one Nicholas Kemboi.
Mr. Obvious wrote:
Good Wigins wrote:The man who ran 1:46 is NOT the same man who ran 26:30.
There is only one Nicholas Kemboi.
Probably just means different training/event focus.
pink butt wrote:
I think the 3,000 and 5,000 are very similar races. In my experience and observations, I've noticed that the 3,000 meter race is just 5k pace with a better kick at the end since you get to kick early.
For me they are 20 seconds per mile different. That's substantial.
Mr. Obvious wrote:
Good Wigins wrote:The man who ran 1:46 is NOT the same man who ran 26:30.
There is only one Nicholas Kemboi.
I am not sure if you clowns are joking or not, but...of course the man who ran 1:46 is not the same man who ran 26:30, meaning he has different DNA. He is NOT the same person.
Good Wigins wrote:
Mr. Obvious wrote:There is only one Nicholas Kemboi.
I am not sure if you clowns are joking or not, but...of course the man who ran 1:46 is not the same man who ran 26:30, meaning he has different DNA. He is NOT the same person.
Better tell IAAF:
http://www.iaaf.org/athletes/qatar/nicholas-kemboi-182002Mr. Obvious wrote:
Good Wigins wrote:I am not sure if you clowns are joking or not, but...of course the man who ran 1:46 is not the same man who ran 26:30, meaning he has different DNA. He is NOT the same person.
Better tell IAAF:
http://www.iaaf.org/athletes/qatar/nicholas-kemboi-182002
The IAAF is wrong here, and this should be a lesson to not rely on them as gospel.