Mike Rice - RUTGERS basketball coach - what a psycho!

Sorry I don't agree with you, most of my generation where not like Rice but close...the video shows most of his basketball throws to the ground, looks like someone was trying to pile it on. An someone said earlier this was from thousand of film footage.

....in my day boys were spanked, paddled, or whatever you want to call it for bad behavior.... everyone I knew walked to school on their own starting in the first grade (1/4 mile or more). If you misbehaved at school, church, whatever we got paddle, if our father found out, you got paddle again. Do I approved of coach Rice, well I am not sure, I just know what I see in society today, look what we getting today with todays methods: They are not working, by a long shot. No generation is perfect, but in my mine, we had respect, hand shakes where meaningful, even after a good fist fight, that's how it was. Boys were encouraged to be males, That doesn't mean a much bigger (physically) boy beating or bullying the younger boys a was good thing or allowed by his peers, those kind would have their day. Personally I could have played for a coach like Rice or Knight, no whining, no complaining, etc...as a young man I thought it was a necessary part of becoming a man. Today I would never cow to anyone, but that's now. I honestly think everyone is over-acting, lets hear from his players (majority), what do they have to say? Then I could make better decision. The players are grown men not children. The team should have the final say about their coach being fired or staying as the coach, they should have a private vote, and let it be unanimous. I find it a little hard to believe the recruited players didn't know what like of guy he was? Some earlier posts states he was this way as a assistant. BTW: if coach is fire the AD should be to. There is the problem, no accountable at the top.

RuKiddingMe!!

Sure there were some aspects of how people lived in the past that was more admirable. Less likely to sue, more likely to deal with some discomfort without complaining, willing to walk further distances to get to places, less likely to talk about sex (as that apparently bothers some people today), more likely to refer to elders as sir or Mr. (for those who find this important), etc. However, you can't ignore that in other ways that society (and that means the people in society) has improved. In the past, people were far more racist than today (and I'm not talking about subtle stuff but the outright racist taunting stuff that just wasn't cool). In the past, people were more likely to taunt the disabled than today (and you really can't find any way to justify that). In the past, people turned a blind eye to child molesters if they were in positions of authority (e.g., the church) that they would tolerate today, etc. Now I grant that some things have gotten worse, but all in all society has improved and this over-glorification of the old days is a bit silly. In reality, there is an under-appreciation of the present as society has advanced in civility compared to how it was before. Btw, I'm not that young (in my 40s) but I can see the improvement in the way people treat each other even during the span of my life.

this.

can a player fight back in self defense?

It seems pyscho in today's culture, but let me tell you, that coaching style was common place 30+yrs ago. It was the rule rather than the exception. There were no video cams, no cell phones/cameras, etc. I saw nothing that I had not seen before. Remember a coach by the name of Bobby Knight. And there were plenty of others. I'm not saying it's justified or necessarily a good practice, but it's nothing new. Some kids can take it and even thrive under it. Others melt like hot butter.

douchebag dave wrote:

Anyone else see this guy on ESPN?

What kind of nut job is he?

I played h.s. basketball for 2 years, then ran track in college. I've never seen or heard of any coach, at any level, do stuff like that.

What a douchebag.

It seems pyscho in today's culture, but let me tell you, that coaching style was common place 30+yrs ago. It was the rule rather than the exception. There were no video cams, no cell phones/cameras, etc. I saw nothing that I had not seen before. Remember a coach by the name of Bobby Knight. And there were plenty of others. I'm not saying it's justified or necessarily a good practice, but it's nothing new. Some kids can take it and even thrive under it. Others melt like hot butter.

douchebag dave wrote:

Anyone else see this guy on ESPN?

What kind of nut job is he?

I played h.s. basketball for 2 years, then ran track in college. I've never seen or heard of any coach, at any level, do stuff like that.

What a douchebag.

Bobby Knight was rough, but he had nothing on Rice. Don't think his misdeeds even compare.

2012xxx wrote:

Bobby Knight was rough, but he had nothing on Rice. Don't think his misdeeds even compare.

There was a lot of crap that Knight pulled that most people don't even know about. Some of it was beyond gross.

The other piece of this that I haven't seen anyone comment on is that the guy who taped this & showed to the AD got fired for doing so. All this started months ago. Rutgers falls into the Nixon-ion trap that the cover-up always just makes things much, much worse. Whomever saw the tape -- the AD for sure & maybe the Rutgers President -- and didn't fire him right away needs to be fired too.

This kind of s*** can't be tolerated...yet if this is going on at a crappy program like Rutgers, think of what is happening at bigger programs where the coaches are even more powerful.

Expelled? ABSOLUTELY, if that's what it takes.

You can't expect life to go perfectly smoothly.

I'd take that representation in a second, pro bono.

Plus, you're assuming a particular outcome. There is no solidarity among these kids. They're all out for what they think is themselves, and they don't understand the bigger picture.

They should have BOTH told the guy to lay off and the next time he tried it somebody/all of them would defend the target, AND escalated it through the reporting chain.

And if he made another move, the target should have been defended--not just by himself, but by ALL of them. And they should have called the cops and had him arrested, and filed a formal criminal complaint. If the cops didn't oblige, then they should have gone directly to the relevant city/county attorney's office. I don't care WHAT the university's policy is, and if they would consider going above their heads a violation of that policy.

Rutgers is a state school, so no doubt there are campus cowboys, so they would probably be the first ones to respond, if not the only ones.

I know the situation could (COULD) be dicey, but people shouldn't be afraid to get a bloody nose. Those kids aren't doing themselves any favors, no matter what they think.

Think about how many times, and in how many different contexts, this same situation plays out every day in the US. Call it bullying if you will. No wonder there is no effective leadership in the USA.

I believe this coach is something of a hothead, but I think he should have been allowed to keep his job. After all, it's only Rutgers. They suck at everything anyway, especially academics.

For someone who purports to be educated you have a woefully naive understanding of group dynamics.

Sprintgeezer wrote:

Plus, you're assuming a particular outcome. There is no solidarity among these kids. They're all out for what they think is themselves, and they don't understand the bigger picture.

They should have BOTH told the guy to lay off and the next time he tried it somebody/all of them would defend the target, AND escalated it through the reporting chain.

And if he made another move, the target should have been defended--not just by himself, but by ALL of them.

People keep bring up BKnight but Ive heard quite a few of his ex-players talk about this over the past couple of days and none of them say he did anything close to this level of crazy.

Anyone ever have a crazy track coach? It seems that most XC coaches and track guys aren't of that mentality.

Here's a pretty thorough account of Bobby Knight's antics:

http://voices.yahoo.com/a-history-coach-bobby-knights-extreme-outbursts-117309.html

In all the sports I ever played, from age 7 to my 30s, I only ever had one hothead hardass coach. I was miserable and played worse for him than for anyone else. Guys like Rice, guys even VAGUELY like Rice, shouldn't be in the business.

Now legal and sports media are calling for the AD and University President to be fired, with reference to the fact that this all appears to have been kept quiet by these two when it originally came up due to the negative impact it would have had on the Big Ten negotiations. Interesting point. Plus, the AD calling this a first offense is laughable, and leads to the conclusion that he is either incompetent, corrupt in favor of his cronies, or both.

Mike and Mike cited a source close to the Board of Trustees as stating the AD is being kept around because he played such an important role in the BTen move. That passes the business test but is not going to pass a test in the court of public opinion.

Big boy in the gov's mansion has already chimed in via a public statement. These guys are all going down it's just a matter of time. They will get nice deals on the way out for making the BigTen thing happen but they will be gone within 10 days to 2 weeks.

Rice's antics (and even remotely close to them) don't work with intelligent athletes who have choices in life. They also don't work with the bulk of today's players, who just tune out in the fact of this kind of intimidation. I am not sure I have a sense of moral outrage over this - there are many immature jerks in athletics - but this guy's won loss record at Rutgers speaks for itself - he was highly ineffective.

You say "group dynamics" like there is one kind of group, or one kind of dynamic.

Like I said, I have been in a situation almost exactly analogous to the one at Rutgers, and it was resolved totally differently, and better, as a result of a "group dynamic".

Then again, maybe it wasn't almost exactly analogous. Maybe all the Rutgers players are exhibiting some sort of deeply conditioned response, or maybe they're morons, or maybe both.

Authority has limits. Respect for authority and its directives exists only up to the limits of that authority, AND NO FURTHER. Nobody is obligated by law to follow the unlawful order of a peace officer who counsels them to commit a crime.

This guy was arguably outside the limits. His actions were arguably motivated by anger, and not reasonably related to legitimate coaching objectives. Either the players didn't perceive it that way, or they did, and chose to do nothing.

In the first instance they are either ignorant, morons, or just young/innocent/naive, whatever you want to call it; in the second, they are immature, without conviction and self-respect and respect for the dignity and safety of others and of the power relationships in society, and their limits; they are gutless, and don't stand up for what they know is right, and against that which they know is wrong.

Like I said, I've been there. People are afraid to fight for what they know is right, and against what they know is wrong, and I mean really fight. When you're really in, you would be surprised at how things can turn out in your favor.

How did all this come to public light, anyway? Somebody edited some tape and leaked it to ESPN? How many guys had to endure that crap before this came to light? Did they think they were being "smart"? Because I don't see it when I see the video, even though the coach is now fired. I see a bunch of stupid sheep being assaulted, berated, and belittled in a way that has no reasonable relation to the context in which it occurs, and which is totally out-of-bounds, and who are in a position to do something, but who do nothing. I don't see anything "smart" at all.

All I see is an a-hole dominating a bunch of submissive cowards. At some point you have to take responsibility for your own actions...and inactions. And that time should have happened by the time you are in college.

Probably the players were conditioned somehow into believing that his actions were reasonably relating to coaching objectives, even though IMO they were clearly motivated by anger. Had they had coaches like this before? Did this coach "ease into the violence" throughout the season, getting progressively worse as the season went on? Had the players experienced similar physical assault previously, at the hands of an authority figure other than a coach?

Is this the norm among high school basketball coaches?

I see late high-school kids all the time. 2 nights ago I worked out with a group of them--all black urban kids, 17/18 years old, all played ball, all in great shape. And, I have to say, all really nice kids. All very respectful of me and each other, and appreciative of the fact that I was strong and fast. I got the sense that the respect came not only from my ability, but from my age. There was a certain feeling of submissiveness among these guys, they were just so darn nice--not like in my day, where some would have been smart-asses, jawing at each other and everybody else around them, posturing among themselves--and these guys were some of the top HS athletes around.

We never displayed that kind of submissiveness in the presence of actual or perceived authority. Sure we respected that authority, and we would submit to it where appropriate, but there was no general attitude of subjugation to a superior will.

I'm not saying that all they had was humility, although that could be the case--I'm saying there was a certain weakness that I don't remember.

Maybe it's been too long, and maybe I expect too much. But those were HS guys, not college guys, and there should be a difference.

I want to believe that someone has stolen the handle you're using, or that you have stolen it. The person who used to use it posted some interesting and intelligent comments about athletics. You, however, sound worse and worse as this thread progresses. To call these players "submissive cowards" based on your perception of their inaction tells us pretty much all we need to know about you, tough guy. And just out of curiosity, how do you know that these players are not taking responsibility for their "actions...and inactions"? Have you spoken to any of them? Have you read interviews or seen comments from any of them? Do you know for certain that none of the players complained? Have you heard any comments in which players have admitted their disappointment in themvelves for not acting? Did any of the players call out the coach for his actions yet not get caught on tape doing so?You don't know the answers to any of these questions, do you? But, because you've been in an analogous situation and YOU know that YOU acted the only possibly acceptable way, you're perfectly comfortable criticizing them from your comfy armchair. Nice work, tough guy.

Sprintgeezer wrote:

All I see is an a-hole dominating a bunch of submissive cowards. At some point you have to take responsibility for your own actions...and inactions. And that time should have happened by the time you are in college.