pre1972 wrote:
don;t you just hate those baseball games that are won with a walk off home run?
Not disagreeing with your other points but come on dude. There is a huge difference between a hard fought baseball game that comes down to a walk off home run and let's say the Big 10 mens indoor mile that goes out in 2:30 for 800, a mediocre high school girls time.
Dennis Reynolds wrote:
pre1972 wrote:don;t you just hate those baseball games that are won with a walk off home run?
Not disagreeing with your other points but come on dude. There is a huge difference between a hard fought baseball game that comes down to a walk off home run and let's say the Big 10 mens indoor mile that goes out in 2:30 for 800, a mediocre high school girls time.
Tell you what. Next time you're watching a championship race, don't look at the clock. Just...watch the race. You might learn something.
while I very impressed by people who can win Pre style sitting and kicking is a great way to run and win a race. Not everybody is built to run from the front so kicking is a great option, though not with out its perils since if you try to kick and are to far away you'll be screwed. So give kickers some credit
What is the most successful movie ever made? Prefontaine
Why was it the most successful movie ever made? Because he didn't run like a kicker.
People go to races to see fast times, not to see first place. WHY? because no matter what, there will always be a first place, second place, third place etc. What changes? how fast people run. Have u ever heard the crowd get upset when someone runs 4:00.2 at the penn relays? people stop buying drinks at the stadium because they came to see fast times. THey want to leave and say "i saw someone break 4 minutes for the mile.
I'm glad solinsky has the mental toughness to say this quote.
good one wrote:
Tell you what. Next time you're watching a championship race, don't look at the clock. Just...watch the race. You might learn something.
When I see a group of sub 4 milers bunched up running slower than a chubby high school girl I tend to question what kind of pace they are on. Don't really learn much from that.
Crowds tends to get loud for three reasons: someone's going to break an important barrier; there's a close finish; a local favorite does well. But I wouldn't say they're necessarily most excited in that order. Convenient that you chose possibly the most famous barrier in our sport as your example. If that 4:00.2 mile is exciting--either with bold front running or a great finishing kick--odds are the crowd would be happier than watching a bold solo effort.
Oregon runnerz wrote:
What is the most successful movie ever made? Prefontaine
Why was it the most successful movie ever made? Because he didn't run like a kicker.
People go to races to see fast times, not to see first place. WHY? because no matter what, there will always be a first place, second place, third place etc. What changes? how fast people run. Have u ever heard the crowd get upset when someone runs 4:00.2 at the penn relays? people stop buying drinks at the stadium because they came to see fast times. THey want to leave and say "i saw someone break 4 minutes for the mile.
I'm glad solinsky has the mental toughness to say this quote.
thank you! doesn't matter how you do it! you play to win the game! you don't play just to play!!!
I need new pants wrote:
Some of you seem to be confused as to the purpose of a race. It is to be the first to reach the finish line. Any tactic within the official rules of the sport employed to achieve the objective of finishing first is fine by me.
Dennis Reynolds wrote:
When I see a group of sub 4 milers bunched up running slower than a chubby high school girl I tend to question what kind of pace they are on. Don't really learn much from that.
If you don't realize the amount of interesting stuff happening in a pack of middle distance runners playing cat & mouse at that pace, then you're an idiot.
And if you are aware of all the stuff going on in tactical, "slow" races and can't learn anything from it as a runner, you're still an idiot.
Dennis Reynolds wrote:
When I see a group of sub 4 milers bunched up running slower than a chubby high school girl I tend to question what kind of pace they are on. Don't really learn much from that.
Fine then. Just wallow in your ignorance and continue to yell at clowds when you watch a race that isn't to your liking.
What a lot of people seem to be forgetting is that a kick is about speed reserve. This means you have to be fast and STRONG (aerobically fit, really). Championship races tend not to be at PR pace for the top guys, but they aren't jogs either. Fitness is very important to kicking, because you need to be fresher than the other guys in addition to being faster. The way you hear it talked about on Letsrun makes it sounds as if the 2012 Olympic 5 and 10ks would have been won by Usain Bolt or Kirani James had they competed. Clearly, this is not the case.
jsjsj wrote:
It's not macho shallow thinking. I watch races to see honest competition. NOT to see one guy sandbag it and jog behind everyone until the last lap.
Isn't that EXACTLY how Solinsky got his last win over Rupp? And wasn't that his last win at ANY distance? (And what was that? 2.5 years ago?)
What I am saying is that a win at the olympic level (or any level for that matter) always goes to the person with the fastest time in that race. I guess that is self evident. Irregardless of how they got that time--short of pushing someone--or even what that time is, they won. you can't fault someone for having a winning strategyIf they can't outrun someone from 3K out you can't blame them for correctly assessing the field in front of them, assessing their own fitness, strengths and weaknesses, and deciding on an approach that ensures they can bring a paycheck home to their families. I work with a lot of Kenyan runners who depend on the paycheck they get from winning. Galen Rupp can make more money losing a race than the average Kenyan can winning the race. So if they win in a kick, what do they care? What should we care? What makes our sport great is that there is no east german judge...fastest man wins. period. What makes some races great is that they are not all great races. As spectators we have to learn to appreciate the Big 10 championships so that we can just enjoy watching David Rudisha.
Dennis Reynolds wrote:
pre1972 wrote:don;t you just hate those baseball games that are won with a walk off home run?
Not disagreeing with your other points but come on dude. There is a huge difference between a hard fought baseball game that comes down to a walk off home run and let's say the Big 10 mens indoor mile that goes out in 2:30 for 800, a mediocre high school girls time.
gebroni wrote:
I agree with him.
It kills me to see those wuss runners who can't lead a race and can only win by kicking it in the last part.
Like that one guy who sat on Rupp and then out kicked him for the American record and ran sub 27. Why would anyone run like that?
He went with like 600m to go. and they were running fast the whole race. it's not like they did a 4:41 fist 1600 and then all sprinted the last lap.
Pre was a poser. An alcoholic poser. Thankfully he didn't take out anyone with him. RIP.
Someone Who Knows Things wrote:
If you don't realize the amount of interesting stuff happening in a pack of middle distance runners playing cat & mouse at that pace, then you're an idiot.
And if you are aware of all the stuff going on in tactical, "slow" races and can't learn anything from it as a runner, you're still an idiot.
Jesus f*cking christ I have this conversation every time I bring this up. Would you be ok if all the dudes walked the first half mile? Huh, cause when a group of sub 4 milers goes out in 2:30 that's basically what they are doing. Cat and mouse at 63/64s, that is fascinating, I love that kind of racing. There is a point though where it is ridiculous. If an Olympic 1500 went out in 80 for the first 400 would you say, "Oh that's great". The race is probably going to finish in a very exciting way but that first part is so unbelievably embarassing and terrible to watch it can ruin the rest of it.
I LOVE TACTICAL RACES, but there is such thing as going out too slow for your ability level.
Dennis Renolds wrote:
Jesus f*cking christ I have this conversation every time I bring this up. Would you be ok if all the dudes walked the first half mile? Huh, cause when a group of sub 4 milers goes out in 2:30 that's basically what they are doing. Cat and mouse at 63/64s, that is fascinating, I love that kind of racing. There is a point though where it is ridiculous. If an Olympic 1500 went out in 80 for the first 400 would you say, "Oh that's great". The race is probably going to finish in a very exciting way but that first part is so unbelievably embarassing and terrible to watch it can ruin the rest of it.
I LOVE TACTICAL RACES, but there is such thing as going out too slow for your ability level.
Could you go as far as giving my a single reason why it's ridicuous, or why "there's such a thing as going out too slow for your ability level" (in races where everyone does, obvioulsy), other than the fact that YOU--a not exceptionally nuanced track fan--don't like it?
Someone Who Knows Things wrote:
Could you go as far as giving my a single reason why it's ridicuous, or why "there's such a thing as going out too slow for your ability level" (in races where everyone does, obvioulsy), other than the fact that YOU--a not exceptionally nuanced track fan--don't like it?
The day will come when a group of athletes in a tactical race will walk the first half of a race. You tell me how you feel on that day.
Would be fine if the next Olympic 1500 goes through 800 in 3:00? COME ON BRO! JESUS CHRIST.
E = mc^2 + G =m1 m2/r^2 wrote:
This has to be one of the most asinine threads and arguments I've ever read about running. I personally don't care if you pace yourself or kick it the end. The point of a race is to see who gets to the finish line first not to see who leads the longest. Are you people for real?
Then you agree with the op.
i have no name wrote:
while I very impressed by people who can win Pre style...
Winning Pre style is impossible. By definition, if you are winning, you are not racing "Pre style." Pre never won an OG or WC.
pre never won wrote:
i have no name wrote:while I very impressed by people who can win Pre style...
Winning Pre style is impossible. By definition, if you are winning, you are not racing "Pre style." Pre never won an OG or WC.
Spoken like an idiot. The WC's didn't exist in Pre's lifetime.
Moron.