Please provide us with statistics to support your assertation sir.
Rupple Stiltskin wrote:
I agree with Carl Lewis as the GOAT. Better than Zatopeck and Owens in my opinion because the age he competed in was more competitive. The worldwide population and participation in sports was much higher in Lewis's age so he had much tougher competition.
DaveyGuy wrote:
really?????? wrote:See, your statement is highly opinionated and you are stating it as fact and you lack criteria on which to make this decision so your argument is null and void...sorry.
5- Merlene Ottey 80,84,92,96,00
Probably just in one event though...too bad.
Why don't throwers compete in more than one discipline?
i kinda like running wrote:
Yeah a runner COULD theoretically win 11 medals, but it will never happen because, competitive depth debate aside, those 11 track events are too different. A swimmer has the opportunity to do more events that are quite similar. In Bejing, four of Phelps gold medals came in events that ranged from 100 to 200 meters. Please.
And I'm sorry but to me it makes no sense to separate the different strokes into different events. Every swimming event should be freestyle. You use whatever stroke you want to get from point A to point B.
Winning that many golds in gymnastics is just as absurd. Again, the events are too varied. And those gymnasts have to have to razor sharp nerves and focus. To think they could win gold in every individual event is almost unfathomable, even if theoretically possible. I'm not saying you don't have to have focus for swimming, but it's not on the same level of gymnastics and I couldn't be convinced otherwise. For that matter, the level of concentration needed for running is not on par with gymnastics either.
The swimming events are different too. The butterfly is not the backstroke is not the medley is not the breaststroke is not freestyle. Running is the same with different distances, only faster.
something i came across from iaaf:
"The most medals won by an individual athlete is 12 by distance runner Paavo Nurmi (FIN) in 1920-24. His greatest year was 1924 with five golds including the 1500m and 5000m within 90 minutes. The most by a woman is nine by sprinter Merlene Ottey (JAM) at 100m, 200m and 4x100m in 1980, 1984, and 1992-2000. She won three silvers and six bronzes, missing the 1996 100m gold by a margin of just five-thousandths of a second. Shirley Strickland (AUS) won seven medals at 100m, 200m, 80m hurdles and 4x100m relay in 1948-2956. Photo-finish evidence from London 1948 proves that she should have taken one more medal, a bronze from the 200m. She was officially placed fourth and that result has so far not been amended."
Obviously phelps has more medals and is more decorated and what he's done is pretty amazing, I just think the term "greatest olympian ever" could be so many people and for me phelps isn't it.
And this point about Sherbo helps my point. That when the same sport has different disciplines, it is difficult but not impossible to dominate. The fact that Sherbo did it and Phelps and Spitz was able to do it means it can be done. It hasn't been done with track and field, despite the fact that sprinting is running really fast and running is running.
I didnt even google this, but I think Owens LJ stood until Beamon's big jump in Mx.
Owens is my top pic over Lewis simply because of the setting. I agree the field wasn't as deep as what CL faced. I would have no issue accepting CL as the best ever. But I'd put JO as #1b
Beamon wrote:
there are countless variations of the same event with which to bag a medal
In swimming?
As opposed to the 5000 and 10000 in track, which never ever have people doubling? Or the 100 and 200, which also see zero overlap?
Got it.
Moron.
Well who the hell told you that you could express an opinion without stating it as a fact? In the words of Stewie... "Damn you, I say."
champyoyoza wrote:
something i came across from iaaf:
"The most medals won by an individual athlete is 12 by distance runner Paavo Nurmi (FIN) in 1920-24. His greatest year was 1924 with five golds including the 1500m and 5000m within 90 minutes. The most by a woman is nine by sprinter Merlene Ottey (JAM) at 100m, 200m and 4x100m in 1980, 1984, and 1992-2000. She won three silvers and six bronzes, missing the 1996 100m gold by a margin of just five-thousandths of a second. Shirley Strickland (AUS) won seven medals at 100m, 200m, 80m hurdles and 4x100m relay in 1948-2956. Photo-finish evidence from London 1948 proves that she should have taken one more medal, a bronze from the 200m. She was officially placed fourth and that result has so far not been amended."
Obviously phelps has more medals and is more decorated and what he's done is pretty amazing, I just think the term "greatest olympian ever" could be so many people and for me phelps isn't it.
Swimming and gymnastics have quite afew people with 10+ medals. Not only that but they are able to compete within 10 minutes of each race.
These guys can be compared in their own sports as the greatest gymnast or swimmer but not the greatest olympian.
I.e alberto juantorena winning the 400/800 double is a superhuman effort that has never been repeated. Every able bodied person in the world can run, I don't know anyone who has swam the butterfly.
Alberto only has two events which stretched the boundaries of speed and endurance. There is no way he could physically have done any other event. How could one possibly rate phelps achievment higher in a sport where only the privledged minority compete...
The 100/200 4x100 is very differant to the 200m, 200m IM, 200m butterfly, 100m butterfly, 100m relay, 100m medley relay, 200m relay. I assume you can count moron...
There's one chick in the Olympics this year that usually runs the 200 and 400m. This year she's running the 100m and 200m. Why can't she run 100/200/400 and 4x100, 4x400 relays? Plus, some people have won the long jump and 100m. She could do that. Not sure why you wouldn't be decent at the triple jump if you are good at long jump either.
Right there she could have a chance to win 6-7 medals.
My favorite thing about watching swimming, is looking at how truly slow they are moving in the water. Obviously humans were not meant to swim, we were Born to Run (duh), but if you watch phelps or any of the best, and then look at the top of the screen, you will see people walking on the deck just as fast as a world record pace for swimming... This always makes me smile :)))))
To me it's about Lewis getting a gold in 4 different Olympics in the same event and also getting a gold in 4 different events (3 individual).
9 Golds
1 Silver
over 4 Olympiads
Denied chances at relay medals in 1988 and 1996.
Very well could have medalled in 1980 if not for the boycott.
And, to be a running snob, track has way way way more participation and competition than swimming.
If your parents didn't or couldn't get you to a pool constantly as a youth, you never had a chance to be an Olympic swimmer so not many ever had the opportunity.
Everyone in the world had the chance to run.
So the 100m champ is a better athlete than Aston Eaton?
* wrote:
To me it's about Lewis getting a gold in 4 different Olympics in the same event and also getting a gold in 4 different events (3 individual).
9 Golds
1 Silver
over 4 Olympiads
Denied chances at relay medals in 1988 and 1996.
Very well could have medalled in 1980 if not for the boycott.
And, to be a running snob, track has way way way more participation and competition than swimming.
If your parents didn't or couldn't get you to a pool constantly as a youth, you never had a chance to be an Olympic swimmer so not many ever had the opportunity.
Everyone in the world had the chance to run.
Yep. Everyone has access to a track.
I live in Ireland and I don't think we even have an Olympic sized swimming pool. We are a first world country. The majority of the world is poor, and elite swimming is really for the priveledged.
Your not brewing the best the world has to offer when you don't have competitors competiting to fight their way out of poverty like a lot of the poorer nations do in track. And the reason the poor can compete in track? You don't even need a pair of shoes
You don't need a track to run... pretty sure you need a pool to swim
Most people in Asia and Africa can't swim. Those two continents have 6 billion people combined. So I think the statement is pretty accurate.
No Way wrote:
I don't know if the majority of the world can't swim...
really...really wrote:
You don't need a track to run... pretty sure you need a pool to swim
You're right. I forgot you can't swim in oceans, lakes, rivers, etc.