Its amazing that NYT put Ritz beat him at Bejing without stating that Hall beat at both trails and has 5+ min PR on him.
“So he really thinks God is saying, ‘Run 10 times 1,200 meters today,’ or ‘Take tomorrow off’?’ ” said Dathan Ritzenhein, who finished ninth in the marathon at the 2008 Beijing Olympics, one spot ahead of his countryman Hall. “Wow.”
Is it really amazing? I think most people would prefer the higher Olympic place than the Trials win.
No a win is bigger than 9th or 10th. the article makes it seem like Ritz is a better marathoner than Hall and that is not the case at all.
Only someone with a very large ego believes he knows what God should or should not do or why He would do something for one and not another. Your brain is too small!
FCA wrote:
ace in the troll wrote:Please remind us how many current Americans have won a major marathon? 1. You make it sound like every athlete who lives an atheistic type life is winning major marathons left and right and because Ryan Hall believes in God, he is the only one not winning. By the way, the only American who HAS a major marathon victory is also a Christian, he just doesn't receive the same type of media questioning or maybe not as outspoken. Also, I did notice the article talked about Wesley Korir worshipping too and I think he has done okay.
A lot of the world's and America's best runners are Christians (Geb, Bekele, I think Alan Webb, many of the Kenyans) - why does Hall get all the hate?
Interestingly, many Christian-bashers seem to fawn all over Obama, which is a bit ironic as he is a very open Christian.
You seriously think Obama is a Christian? He's a Christian for publicity purposes, but he is most likely an atheist.
dfsfdfd wrote:
a different SN than most times wrote:This is a tangent, but whatever, that's pretty much what LetsRun is for, right?
While I don't believe in God, I am unbothered by Hall's evangelism. His evangelistic faith drives him to build hospitals in Africa, support human rights advocacy groups, fight poverty in the developing world, and help the inner-city homeless through running . . . and call attention to these actions in hope that others will join him. These are good things.
Sure, he might talk about Jesus a lot, and that may make some (including me) a bit uncomfortable at times, but that's our problem, not his. He's not saying all gays and non-believers are going to burn in hell; his beliefs may be out there (according to some), but they're not hateful, and are, in fact, driving him to make the world a better place.
Can't this be done without religion?
Yup, but that isn't how Hall does it. And I don't think it's helpful to criticize the mental processes that lead people to perform undeniably good deeds (not that I necessarily think you're criticizing, there).
I do have my reservations about some forms of organized religion (just like I have my reservations about some secular lifestyles), but not the ones that lead people to conclusions like Ryan's. Process is less important than results if those results are consistently good.
Or, better yet wrote:
Honestly? wrote:Au contraire, they share precisely the same delusion.
They all believe in an all-powerful, all-knowing, imaginary deity telling them personally what to do through the voices in their head (and, of course, highly influenced by the men manipulating them from the pulpit).
What they share is being excused from criticism (by most of society) for holding a worldview completely devoid of any rational examination.
Well, I don't know that it's fair to imply Ryan Hall is on par with that kind of b-s in Uganda, but I think you make a great point here: "What they share is being excused from criticism (by most of society) for holding a worldview completely devoid of any rational examination."
That's too true, especially the part about being excused from criticism. I saw an interview with Santorum where he complained about being called a bigot, saying that's mean and not fair because his feelings towards gay folks are due of his religious beliefs. And the interviewer, Pierce Whatzhisname on CNN, totally let it slide and agreed with him.
There's this bizarre mentality that somehow if we cloak our position with the bible, for example, it's no longer bigotry. It's like this get out of jail card. I don't care whether your beliefs are biblically rooted, or rooted in any other ideology. Bigotry is still bigotry.
I hope Ryan Hall has a great run in London; I just hope his "coach" doesn't stone him to death for racing on a Sunday?
One of these days you are going to realize that the 17th century is over and we no longer judge people based on their religious beliefs.
Chimp Scholar wrote:
QTPi wrote:[quote]hrt wrote:
In any case, Hall is not actually an idiot--he may be *wrong* about some important things,
You're not actually an idiot, either. Just a pompous ass.
Interesting response. My remark was actually directed at (*some* of) my fellow unbelievers, who conclude that anyone who holds a god-belief is perforce an idiot. No, Ryan is NOT necessarily an idiot, or a lunatic, just because he thinks differently from you about something important.
You can think his religious beliefs are wrong, yet still respect him as a runner and a human being--as I do.
_________________________________________________________________
BTW, I found this line interesting:
"At the same time, [Salazar] said, 'I may not understand how Ryan believes, but what I respect him for tremendously is that he has the guts to share his faith.'"
I wonder whether Alberto would have tremendous respect for someone who had the guts to share his/her *lack* of faith. I'm thinking...maybe not.
Listen, religious tolerance is a thing of the 17th century, when people were clueless about which religion more accurately described reality, currently , science and modern society have no time to tolerate whose imaginary friend is better, has more super powers, offers a better deal on the after life, can love you endlessly but still send you to internal damnation, and etc
If you don't like what he has to say, stop reading and obsessing over every interview he gives. He's better than you, get over it.
Bobby1 wrote:
Only someone with a very large ego believes he knows what God should or should not do or why He would do something for one and not another. Your brain is too small!
Seriously? That's your reply? Seriously?
So, which part of the following would you object to:
1) Parents with strong religious beliefs sometimes choose to not procure appropriate medical services for their children and instead cling to "faith healing" until it is too late.
2) As a result of 1) many children suffer and die needlessly
3) Folks (especially famous folks) proclaiming that "God has healed my (fill in the blank)" provides background and motivation for some parents to choose the path of "faith healing" thereby increasing the frequency of 1) and 2)
4) The needless suffering and death of innocent children matters.
???
hrt wrote:
BTW, I found this line interesting:
"At the same time, [Salazar] said, 'I may not understand how Ryan believes, but what I respect him for tremendously is that he has the guts to share his faith.'"
I wonder whether Alberto would have tremendous respect for someone who had the guts to share his/her *lack* of faith. I'm thinking...maybe not.
Salazar is Catholic, and Hall is Protestant; those two groups have had their differences over the years, more than Christians and atheists. I'm glad that Salazar is wise enough to accept and respect others' beliefs.
To the poster who said that religious toleration was something from when people didn't know which religious system was more accurate: that just isn't true. Back then everyone was absolutely certain that they were right, and that cause a lot of trouble, so they agreed that while they still thought they were right, they would agree to disagree, so to speak.
Jesus may make you feel better as a person, but Jesus is no substitute for a quality coach, if your goal is to be an elite marathoner. Sorry mates, but RH is wasting his talent. RH, God really wants you to have a good coach!
As the line goes from "Eldorado" starring John Wayne: "Faith may move mountains, but it can't beat a faster gun..."
I've known some very committed Christians, but none of them claim to hear from God or to fast for an entire week (especially as a professional athlete) or claim to have seen a "glory cloud." RH's Christian views seem really odd and peculiar, almost like a fringe cult group.
Concerned Citizen wrote:
Or, better yet wrote:Well, I don't know that it's fair to imply Ryan Hall is on par with that kind of b-s in Uganda, but I think you make a great point here: "What they share is being excused from criticism (by most of society) for holding a worldview completely devoid of any rational examination."
That's too true, especially the part about being excused from criticism. I saw an interview with Santorum where he complained about being called a bigot, saying that's mean and not fair because his feelings towards gay folks are due of his religious beliefs. And the interviewer, Pierce Whatzhisname on CNN, totally let it slide and agreed with him.
There's this bizarre mentality that somehow if we cloak our position with the bible, for example, it's no longer bigotry. It's like this get out of jail card. I don't care whether your beliefs are biblically rooted, or rooted in any other ideology. Bigotry is still bigotry.
I hope Ryan Hall has a great run in London; I just hope his "coach" doesn't stone him to death for racing on a Sunday?
One of these days you are going to realize that the 17th century is over and we no longer judge people based on their religious beliefs.
Well, truth be told, it depends on what those religious beliefs ARE.
There is no God. This is all really silly.
seen too much wrote:
I'm an old guy and in my career as a doc, mostly for kids, I've seen so much that I really don't know what to think about religion. If believing in God helps Mr. Hall and makes him feel good about life and what he's doing, I can't really see much harm in it.
But the one thing in the article that really bothered me was the conversation with his wife, when she was discussing how her Achilles tendinitis was faith healed.
Why would that bother me?
Here are just a very few vignettes from my life -
Sitting in a hospital room on the oncology ward with a 5 year old and his mom, watching a Disney movie late one evening. All of a sudden the little boy starts hemorrhaging blood from his mouth and is looking at me with huge eyes and grabbing my hand to help. The mom is screaming and pleading for God to help him. He dies before we can stop the bleeding.
Another night on the same oncology ward, and the 3 month old infant of a devout Pentecostal couple has an inoperable brain tumor. He seizes all night in the mom's arms while she weeps and begs God to save him, while the dad is on his knees praying all night. I can't stop the seizures and he dies at around 6 a.m.
In the ER at 8 a.m. and a little 4 year old girl arrives seizing - she has H.flu meningitis and dies in the ER 2 hours later, and the dad puts his fist through the wall, breaking multiple bones, and screaming at God for not letting him die instead.
Too many to count little kids dying in various refugee camps of you name it - starvation, measles, meningitis, bombs, bullets, cholera, land mines, mutilation, whatever. Countless weeping mothers crossing themselves and pulling their hair, or some just silently weeping.
So when someone tells me God has healed their tendinitis, I just hope it isn't true. I know the faithful always answer the same way, that the ways of God are inscrutable and the like. But I really hope I don't live in a universe where my creator would allow all this suffering, yet heal something as trivial as a runner's leg pain.
What's my point? By stating in an international newspaper like the New York Times that God has healed your tendinitis, the implication is that God has made a value judgment, and he has healed you because your faith is stronger than that of others. If I were one of the parents of the cases I mentioned above, that sort of comment would really hurt.
That was my objection. I pray for the Halls that they never have to face something in their lives that will genuinely test their faith.
Thanks. I valued the opinions of guys that have lived and learned much longer than me.
Sammy Lives wrote:
Best NON Quote from the article -
Dathan Ritzenhiem who failed to qualify for the marathon this year and got throttled by Hall in 2008 at the OT trails in NY.
WOW
Ritz you are trashing a guy who has consistently out performed as a professional? Wow
Outperformed at the marathon distance. Has not outperformed at 5k, 10k, competetive half marathons, and world championships.
This was a great post and really puts things in perspective.
As much as I was thrilled with the way Hall won the 2008 trials, his celebrating in the last couple miles was unseemly, boastful and childish. If God does deliver a medal for Hall, I hope he can react with some humility and grace.
"Barrack Obama's scandal-ridden President."
What a freaking joke. Let me guess: you watch Faux News, right?