Schumacher quit acting like your training is a breach of Homeland Security

We know Schumacher's formula. Long tempos, lots of aerobic work in the winter, 2mile repeats and the like, cut back on mileage in the spring/summer, and run fast intervals.

I would be interested in learning how he and salazar develop their athlete's kicks. Clearly being able to kick is a byproduct of insane aerobic development... but I would have to think they are "working on it" some other way as well. Rupp went from a guy who couldn't kick to a great kicker. Solinsky, Teg and Jager... all great kickers. Rupp works on his speed by under racing in the winter. Was that all he did to develop it? Would be interested in just knowing that, cause the rest I think IS pretty well known.

26mi235 wrote:

He has read the riot act to young guys and then had them come out and do great things afterwards.

That sounds like stupid coaching to me.

If that's true, then I would not recommend him to anyone as a coach.

"

If it's so easy then why they heck aren't they or any others with the success that Jerry has? Because it aint so easy. Look there are a handful of cookie cutter assembly line high school programs who recruit 50-100 runners per year and show up as top ranked teams year after year, and 99% of their runners go on to do NOTHING in college. That's mostly due to running the legs off of 100 runners, having a decent program, strong desire from the athletes easily built off the performances and history of teams before. It's easy to make a decent team out of a huge pool and in relation to the lack of coaching and depth at 99% of the high school programs.

Coaching pro's is taking the best of the best, and making them stand out amongst them. Totally different level, not even apples and oranges here, more like apples and blueberries.[/quote]

You don't get it do you?

Schumacher is given the best talent to work with, pretty easy to look good, hell, just keep em healthy and you look good. Get them some work and still keep em healthy and look at all the credit you get.

Like I said, give the Kranick's or Aris,the same guys that Schumacher has and you get the same results, maybe better.

The double irony is that there are no secrets, and if Schumacher were as secretive as Homeland Security, the "secrets" would have been breeched long ago, unless they were written in Arabic.

Um, lets see, Schumacher made talented young runners into talented mature runners. Call me when he gets a bunch of bums running sub 13:15, then we can start searching for secrets.

666 wrote:

Um, lets see, Schumacher made talented young runners into talented mature runners. Call me when he gets a bunch of bums running sub 13:15, then we can start searching for secrets.

I'm not jumping on the Schumacher for greatest coach of all time bandwagon, but let's give credit where credit is due: he took two very talented younger runners and made them the two fastest Americans EVER at the 5k (excluding Ritz, of course) and 10k. And really, the 10k effort is pretty mindboggling when you think of the worldwide talent spanning the history of running that hasn't come anywhere near 26:59.

But that's part of the magic, hopefully- other guys will see beefy ol' Solinksy doing it and think 'hey why not me?'

And count me among those who find it humorous that the factions are so secretive about their training.

Each to his own opinion, but knowing when to lay down the law is a skill that is hard to learn and it important for both coach and athlete. Also, what the phrase means to you and to me may be different, so I think your conclusion is subject to interpretation errors. I would guess that if you asked those involved they would not agree with you, although that is not entirely definitive by itself.

J.R. wrote:

26mi235 wrote:

He has read the riot act to young guys and then had them come out and do great things afterwards.

That sounds like stupid coaching to me.

If that's true, then I would not recommend him to anyone as a coach.

wake up wrote:

Rupp has shared plenty of workouts, hell they invited a reported to his 40-30 workout and gave splits. No great program collegiate or pro show all their cards, that would be stupid. It's a competitive game, if you show all your cards you give your competition the advantage, mostly in the result of confidence. Keep them guessing, chances are their not as confident to beat you.

Weekend warriors want to know what Rupp and Solinsky are doing? Do you read a Ferrari manuel to operate on a Civic? All you need is a Lydiard book dumbed down.

ya like learning from pro athlete's doesn't exist in other sports!!!

FWIW it's the concepts that can be adaptable

As others have said, there are no secret workouts. Better runners and coahces always believe that improvements can be made with practice.

If you believe, you achieve, if you don't you won't.

runner39 wrote:

wake up wrote:

Rupp has shared plenty of workouts, hell they invited a reported to his 40-30 workout and gave splits. No great program collegiate or pro show all their cards, that would be stupid. It's a competitive game, if you show all your cards you give your competition the advantage, mostly in the result of confidence. Keep them guessing, chances are their not as confident to beat you.

Weekend warriors want to know what Rupp and Solinsky are doing? Do you read a Ferrari manuel to operate on a Civic? All you need is a Lydiard book dumbed down.

ya like learning from pro athlete's doesn't exist in other sports!!!

FWIW it's the concepts that can be adaptable

You can't simply lump competitive running in with other sports. Success in running is easily and precisely defined when timed by the watch or the 3 spots that make international teams. A .01 can keep you from holding the American Record or going to the Olympics. Can you really understand the consequences of being on the bad end of the .01? Your whole career only to miss out or lose an AR or a spot to the Olympics? Then there is the financial gains/losses that you have to take into account here.

As I said before, it's not just the physical gain that a competitor gets if they find that your training works better for them than they what were used to, it's the mental gains they can get by knowing what you are doing. Like I said, it's better to keep others guessing, which tends to keep their confidence tempered. If runner A usually beats runner B and as a result has an edge over him, but runner B learns of runner A's toughest workout, or hell his toughest month of training and then goes out and runs more mileage than that and not only completes but exceeds runner A's workouts, runner B now has a new sense of confidence coming into races. How exactly does that benefit runner A who's entire life exists around trying to obtain records and secure spots on international teams??? These guys have contracts which may end every year or every few years, which are redrawn based on performance and you want them to piss that to the wind so you can break 15 minutes or 14 minutes for a 5K?

If you think I'm wrong here, then why the hell do you think they do it this way????

Look I understand you'd love to know, and I truly wish you the best with your running, but if you can't understand why it makes ill sense for them to share their secrets than I'm sorry.

The truth is for most runners there is so much room for improvement you really don't need to know the intricasies of the way these guys train. It was the basics that got them to the top and it can be found in any Lydiard or Daniels book. The details and dilligence that was ironed out after years of meticulous training and trial and error are really not needed for someone looking at going from l4:30-13:55, it's just getting 100% dedicated and following a well known program without fail and obviously it helps with great training partners.

And to the people who say there is no secrets, that is and is not true. While there is no single thing they do that is probaly a secret, it's more the process in which they apply techniques and training methods that they feel is their secret.

To the poster who asked about how they "got speed" or got a kick or whatever, don't forget that Teg and Solinsky have been running 3:37 or faster for over 3 years. A certain amount of that is talent but obviously they work on speed at times. Finishing workouts with hard quarters and 200's when they already have 10000m worth of work put away etc.

For Rupp it was mostly that he was a base horse for the better half of a decade without any pure speed work, and then starting last year indoors they had him do workouts with Wheating and Centro. Now he's probably back to that base horse mode while incorporating enough of that speed work in to keep it alive.

If you really want to learn anything from these guys you don't need their training logs. Just train your butt off, don't skip a single beat UNLESS your body is telling you to as in injury, sickness etc. and do the core work, plyos and weights. Listening to your body is just as important as pusing it to the limits when it's healthy. The last thing is desire and confidence. These guys are full to the brim on both and that is the last aspect in separating the best from the rest.

666 wrote:

Um, lets see, Schumacher made talented young runners into talented mature runners. Call me when he gets a bunch of bums running sub 13:15, then we can start searching for secrets.

This is far from correct, there are always numerous training groups/coaches loaded with talented runners who don't have Jerry's kind of success across the board. There is certainly more to being a great and successful coach at the level Jerry is displaying than 5 or 6 talented runners and a solid plan. Keep in mind, it's not like he's working with guys who run 13:00 as teenagers, hell not even 8:30 for two miles.

Currently:

Mahon - Flashes of success

Cook - Flashes of success

Hudson - Flashes of success

Their are hundreds of thousands of teachers out there in the U.S. and some very smart kids who don't give a crap about school. Some teachers have the ability to bring the best out of those kids, most do not. It's not simply about being present with a pool of talent and a method in hand.

I think that most runners are constantly trying too hard so that they rarely give their true talent a chance to come out. So many runners seem to object to being told that they can run much faster, they see it as a personal insult, rather than encouragement. So how do you inspire these runners? What am I doing wrong that they don't believe me? Is it just that they don't believe in themselves?

wellnow wrote:

I think that most runners are constantly trying too hard so that they rarely give their true talent a chance to come out. So many runners seem to object to being told that they can run much faster, they see it as a personal insult, rather than encouragement. So how do you inspire these runners? What am I doing wrong that they don't believe me? Is it just that they don't believe in themselves?

Precisely, which is why there are only a few GREAT coaches. They have the ability to bring out the best in their athlets and it's not simply the workouts given. There is also some luck involved. For Jerry the culture of the athletes might mesh very well with his personality. Bring in a Kenyan or Brazilian or a rich boy from NYC and it might not workout so well.

Rupp and Solinski are both professinal runners, so yes it is just like they are in the NFL.

Grow up, this isn't kindergarten or little league. Rupp and Solinski and many other professional runners have mutual respect, but when they toe up to the line, it is all business. The congratulations are after the video cameras stop rolling, and they all understand that.

Why would revealing training details market the sport, since it has nothing to do with the public interest in this sport? Competitive spirit and mutual respect has everything to do with the success of the sport.

By the way, Schumacher told me in private that Gatorade and Snickers bars made all the difference.

DaveW or just Dave the Wanker,

piss off and move out of your parents home, 45 yrs old means time to move on

I'd like to know if those guys (Solinsky and Rupp) have had any exposure to altitude recently- do those guys sleep in the altitude tents? If not, then I guess you could say why bother? If yes, then the results speak for themselves. If I were to guess, then I'd say Rupp sleeps in an altitude simulator, but maybe not for Solinsky. Anybody know?