This is just ridiculous. Franklin has been at New Mexico for what, two years? three years at most, I'm sure the AD would have been willing to have a little bit of patience with the team...would have been willing to see progression from a bunch of 18 year old US/NM HS athletes...
Let's see some evidence for the threat of scholarships being cut if it werent for the oh so noble actions of a bunch of 23 year old boys wanting to delay their entry to the real world.
Are you still crying?
lobo-tomy wrote:
UNM is a public institution, a state school that acts more
Anyone have information on Franklin's freshman classes these past few years at UNM?
The lobos will be getting in a big class of stud freshman from new mexico this coming year.
The truth - NCAA rule wrote:
IN summary, Coach Franklin is staying within the rules. The real issue is the NCAA and it's rules. The "NEW" legislation barely addresses the real issues.
The big PROBLEM is The NCAA "Athletics Activity Waiver" Bylaw 14.2.1.4
A few things to note about the activities waiver. You are essentially correct about the BUSA meet, but the reason they can use it for that meet is because they don't run any other "university" competitions besides that championship. If the NCAA championships were used as a qualifier for World Univ Games, an athlete could run the championship and use the waiver. The problem is, 99.999% of the time they would have also run other meets that were not covered by the activities waiver. So The only realistic scenario I could see for an American is if an athlete redshirts and runs the USA championships (Jrs or Srs), you could use that to extend their 5yr clock.
It is important to note here that the activities waiver isn't giving athletes more eligibility, but extending their clock. They can still only compete in 4 intercollegiate seasons, but now they have 6 years to do it instead of 5.
And to your other point, the "NEW" legislation doesn't address the issue with Brits at all. The new legislation says that athletes must enroll in a full-time program within one year of high school graduation or lose a year of eligibility for each year after that in which they compete. The Brits are in a full-time program while home, so nothing will change for them. They will still go to University there for 3 years, and come here with 2 years on their clock and a possibility for a 6th year if they can use the waiver.
The ones that will be effected by this new legislation are those that come here as 21 year olds and compete in Division I or JUCO as freshman. Assuming those athletes are 18 when they graduate HS, they would have 18-19 as a "freebie", then 19-20 and 20-21 they'd burn two years of eligibility. They'd come in with a maximum of 3 years on their clock to make 2 years of eligibility. So, those 21 yr old freshman we now see would be juniors and if they have to go to JUCO, they could compete 2 yrs there and would have no Division I eligibility left. This would have effected runners we've seen recently like David McNeil, Vincent Rono, Chelanga, David Kimani, etc etc.
Former NCAA Brit wrote:
Do u really think New Mexico would have the same pot of scholarship cash available next year if it wasn't for athletes like Lee puttin them up there in the rankings?..... Answer: definately not!
Tracks budget come from the athletics department, if track sucks that given year the chances are the scholarships will be cut and put into another sport. If the older guys are more likely to keep your funding, why take a chance on a team full of freshman???
That's really not how it works. The amount of scholarships a team has doesn't really fluctuate based on the previous year's performance. You don't just subtract scholarships from one sport and add them to another. Most sports are giving out the maximum amount of scholarships.
This is probably a bad time to ask a question like this, but to me it seems like a good time as a lot of people here seem to know a lot about this.
Im a 28yr old student in the UK, and am currently on 2nd year of a degree (I was working etc. but decided a degree would get me a better opportunity in life, so left work, moved home to parents, and now live off a student loan each year, with a tiny bit of bursary [namely £150 for shoes and free gym membership])
On my course, I have the chance to study abroad through a scheme called ISEP (International Student Exchange Partnership). I have already located the University I wish to attend, and have submitted my application (I don't really want to name the University, but it is a D1). Please note, I am not on any American Scholarship system, and so am not stealing anybodies places! I have been given a chance of doing something like this, and don't see it as a problem to try and enhance my qualifications, and make myself more emplyable when I finish Uni.
My question is what races would I be able to do next year - if any??
Another note is I am no Superstar, but this summer, I have a bet on with an American friend to try and run pbs of 5k 14:10 and 10k 30mins.
Hope someone can help and I don't get ridiculed! :-(
This is probably a bad time to ask a question like this, but to me it seems like a good time as a lot of people here seem to know a lot about this.
Im a 28yr old student in the UK, and am currently on 2nd year of a degree (I was working etc. but decided a degree would get me a better opportunity in life, so left work, moved home to parents, and now live off a student loan each year, with a tiny bit of bursary [namely £150 for shoes and free gym membership])
On my course, I have the chance to study abroad through a scheme called ISEP (International Student Exchange Partnership). I have already located the University I wish to attend, and have submitted my application (I don't really want to name the University, but it is a D1). Please note, I am not on any American Scholarship system, and so am not stealing anybodies places! I have been given a chance of doing something like this, and don't see it as a problem to try and enhance my qualifications, and make myself more employable when I finish Uni.
My question is what races would I be able to do next year - if any??
Another note is I am no Superstar, but this summer, I have a bet on with an American friend to try and run pbs of 5k 14:10 and 10k 30mins.
Hope someone can help and I don't get ridiculed! :-(
Some of what you say is correct, but mot totally. The Brits definately DO run other races in university uniform, but say they do not because they are Club teams. Every single one of them have represented their school in uniform in competitions outside of BUSA. They hide behind the "Club" thing. If they wear a unifrom, then they're representing their school, same as here.
Franklin lives on going to England. It does not matter how old or how good their shoe contract (Kit) is.....
Joe Franklin is all about what is best for joe!
Franklin only calls his coaching frineds when he needs information about other athletes and others programs.
He positions himself to lure transfers to the UNM.
His speciality is using people for what benefits Joe Franklin.He is great at using his friends for what ever makes him look good.
Joe suffers from the short _ick syndrome.
He's a coach he's paid to win within the rules as currently operating. Why all the fuss, is just a bit of jealousy as UNM begins to build a sucessful program.
NCAA rules should be simplified to allow 5 years of athletic scholarship with 4 years of competition in a window of an acceptable student timeframe (i.e. graduate HS + a year out + 4 years undergrad + 3 yrs PhD) then people can make their own choice about missions, perhaps going abroad or even a couple of years out to train and just accept that life ain't fair get on with it.
i know more... wrote:
hey ex lobo - you really believe coach henry did not fill all aid given to the track team? your a d-arse for even saying that.. the UNM athletic director was a hemorriod when coach henry was there. coach franklin thinks he can win there, wrong... that staff doesn't even coach the athletes that are there. nobody works out together - guys just show up at the meet with a UNM jersey on. trust me - i know more...
Actually, if you knew anything about the program, you would know that it has not only been proven that they werent using all the money, but the Henry administration was STEALING money from the program for their own tight family of coaches. Their budget dollars have not changed a bit, actually even dropped this year. But the money is actually going into the program, and not into the pockets of the coaches like it had in the past.
If you guys think that's bad, we have a student at a rival "high school" that is a junior and just turned 20.
He was supposed to be ineligible but they petitioned to have him run this year. The worse part of the story is, they are going to petition again to allow him to run next year in cross country "only". So, if that passes we will have a 20 and a half year old man running against 14 year old kids. Like my brother says, it is possible for that guy to win state and then in a few months be bragging at a bar, legally, that he was the state champ, go figure.
good post lobo-torny
pretty much how I feel about it!
ABQ resident - since your quite confident in your post, please explain this stealing that was going on..??
He seemed a bit more developed today.
1. A Poster wrote: "Joe Franklin is all about what is best for joe! Franklin only calls his coaching frineds when he needs information about other athletes and others programs. He positions himself to lure transfers to the UNM. His speciality is using people for what benefits Joe Franklin.He is great at using his friends for what ever makes him look good. Joe suffers from the short _ick syndrome."
I can't comment on the last sentence since I've never actually looked, but the other stuff is garbage. I am a coaching friend of Joe and have never seen or heard that crap that you are spewing. In fact, every DI coach I know always speaks well of Joe. So your rant is just incorrect. If you are angry for some reason that is fine, but have the balls to just state it, don't hide behind this made-up stuff.
2. Whiners
"Lee Emanuel of UNM is how old? 2/7/2010 2:53AM - in reply to Lobo Exer Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
He's a coach he's paid to win within the rules as currently operating. Why all the fuss, is just a bit of jealousy as UNM begins to build a sucessful program. NCAA rules should be simplified to allow 5 years of athletic scholarship with 4 years of competition in a window of an acceptable student timeframe (i.e. graduate HS + a year out + 4 years undergrad + 3 yrs PhD) then people can make their own choice about missions, perhaps going abroad or even a couple of years out to train and just accept that life ain't fair get on with it."
The problem is that New Mexico is doing nothing differently than most of the top programs in the country. Look at how many international athletes are on active rosters of collegiate teams. Didn't Alabama go over and get 7 Kenyans, and Auburn do the same? Providence has made a living out of Ireland. Sure there are schools that only recruit American's but given the NCAA legislation it is appropriate, and within rules to give scholarships to international athletes. If they changed the rules then I am positive every coach in the country who is currently recruiting international would turn their attention to American kids, and do it that way. But New Mexico is not cheating.
3. ABQ Resident
RE: Lee Emanuel - real issue NCAA rules 2/7/2010 6:25AM - in reply to i know more... Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
"i know more... wrote: hey ex lobo - you really believe coach henry did not fill all aid given to the track team? your a d-arse for even saying that.. the UNM athletic director was a hemorriod when coach henry was there. coach franklin thinks he can win there, wrong... that staff doesn't even coach the athletes that are there. nobody works out together - guys just show up at the meet with a UNM jersey on. trust me - i know more... Actually, if you knew anything about the program, you would know that it has not only been proven that they werent using all the money, but the Henry administration was STEALING money from the program for their own tight family of coaches. Their budget dollars have not changed a bit, actually even dropped this year. But the money is actually going into the program, and not into the pockets of the coaches like it had in the past."
Never heard any discussion about funds not going into the UNM program in the past. The current budget for UNM is similar to what the previous coaches had. The Henry's had the philosophy of recruiting New Mexico kids. I respect that philosophy. But given the state of New Mexico is a horrible track & field state that is why the program fell on hard times. They were very, very bad. So a new coaching staff comes in and wants to do well. Do they beat their head against the wall and pacify the local coaches by recruiting bad athletes, or do they go outside the state to get quality athletes. It would seem to be an easy choice. From what I know there was discussion in the past about dropping track at UNM and much of it was due to the program doing so poorly. Now, the program is doing well and maybe some more American kids will be attracted to the university, which will in turn lessen the number of international kids on the team.
major problems wrote:
I think it is absurd what is going on with some of these old athletes. I am completely for having foreigners in the NCAA, i think it is great and it gives some people who probably wouldn't have the opportunity a chance to get a college degree. But lets remember why 100% of people are in College, to get an education. I'm sure Lee Emanuel is a great guy, a great competitor, and would have been a valuable asset to any DI team when he was 18-23 years old. But now he is old enough to be a seasoned pro and he is racing against kids 2-7 years younger and reaping the benefits. How many 18 year old kids (I don't care where they are from, they could be from England) aren't getting a scholarship (and now an education) because of Lee Emanuel. How many 1500m from his conference, region or whereever aren't getting a scholarship bc they have some stupid coach who says if you don't win a conference championship or don't go to nats you don't get a scholarship. This happens all the time and its just not fair that Lee Emanuel is so much older and experienced. He should be getting a paycheck not keeping other runners from scholarships.
Let's take a poll, how many of you would like to take your 21 year old self and drop down and compete for your high school again??? --That is basically what is happening here.
It is bullshit, and the older foreign athletes have no integrity, and they know they are getting one over on a stupid system that they get to take advantage of.
The NCAA is currupt, and some day it is going to come crashing down.
I'd hate to hear what some of you guys think about UNM's policy regarding free education for undocumented immigrants.
has anybody every thought that the good kids from NM might actually want to go to a different state for college... You guys actually think that the coaching staff at unm did not recruit the best NM has to offer. Matt Tebo (Colorado), Ryan McNiff (adam st) were studs from NM during the Henry's time and they went else where. Kids that are good enough to get a large scholarship for running track generally leave the state of NM... Curtis Beach, Rolando Tramel, Ben Johnson all left the state and I know for a fact ( I coach high school track in alb) that Coach Franklin went after those kids hard and was rejected. I glad that Franklin is at UNM because UNM Cross Country and Track is good again. Back to the point of Lee Emanuel's age.... Who cares this guy is a good runner, is a nice guy, is a good teammate and wasn't exactly a hired gun when he came to UNM... Upon arriving at UNM Emanuel has gotten a lot better... And for all these people that have a problem with it understand 1. you would do the same thing if you had the talent and opportunity 2. And how else was Franklin suppose to turn this program around... Nothing against Coach Henry as that guy is loved in the Alb track community, and he had his hands completely tied by previous administration. But the program did not need better talent. Matt Gonzales and Jeremy Johnson are only the few NM athletes that stayed and competed for UNM that were nationally caliber kids, so how was Franklin suppose to build a top ten distance program with 10:15 two milers on the men side.. And just in case you guys are wondering go to unm website.... There are a lot of NM kids on the cross country roster and it looks like those kids are developing very well... Franklin is doing a good job of recruiting NM and bringing hitters from where ever he can... enough is enough, stop trying to tear down successful people like Franklin and Lee Emanuel...