Does Seb Coe belong in same discussion as W. Kipketer as greatest 800 runners of all time?

You assume everything your arguments are based on. The man is one of the few WR holders in history who didn't race ANYTHING ELSE. He reached his potential. BTW most people decided you were a moron when you argued that wind doesn't effect times.

what i'd weally wike to see is kipketer making a world wecord wun with a decent wabbit.

wowzers wrote:BTW most people decided you were a moron when you argued that wind doesn't effect times.

no

it affects times, but not by the nonsensical amounts posters believe

a 10.14 flat guy with +3m/s runs ~ 10.00

same guy with -3m/s runs 10.35

( from wind/altitude calculator

)

basic = 20.28

windy = 10.00 + 10.35 = 20.35

a difference of 0.07s on straights for 1 lap ( you can redo these with a 800m guy of 1'41 with average 100s of 12.6s instead, but ratio will still be virtually the same - we are talking barely a tenth of a sec ultimately )

on curves, wind has somewhat balancing effects, but obviously still detrimental - give it another 0.05s overall for both curves in a lap ( it cannot be more than the wind effect in the straights )

therefore, a 3m/s wind gives a ~ 0.15s handicap/lap or 0.3s over 800m for 3m/s constant wind in the stadium

try again

its infuriating wrote:

I would think that's enough chances for us to conclude he maxed out his potential on grass/dirt with no rabbits in 1960-whatever.

So he could have gone faster if he had been running on a synthetic 400m track and had a pacemaker for 600m?

How often does absolutely everything go right? The only time I can think of where absolutely everything came together and someone probably got the absolute most out of themselves is Bob Beamon in 1968.

I think that the fact that Snell ran that time on a small grass track says that we could expect faster results under modern conditions. So for Kipketer, while he ran faster in Köln than in Zürich, I think that Zürich was more impressive and showed more potential room for improvement, based on how wildly quick the first 400m was. And even more impressive was his run at World Indoors that year.

ventolin wrote:

beacause history tells us the 2s split differential is one most commonly used to run the 800pb ( not saying it's right, but you have to give history it's due )

so

1'45.0 -> 51.5/53.5

1'44.0 -> 51.0/53.0

1'43.0 -> 50.5/52.5

1'42.0 -> 50.0/52.0

1'41.0 -> 49.5/51.5

1'40.0 -> 49.0/51.0

1'39.0 -> 48.5/50.5

his zurich split of 48.5 was 1'39.0 pace !!!

I spent several hours arguing with you on a thread where you tried to explain to me that negative splitting was the most effective way to run an 800m. Just saying.

it is, but 2s split is what elites do ?!

if you run a middle distance, you want constant speed gun-to-tape

a relay 400 split = ~1.0s slower than open

therefore a flying 2nd lap shoud be 1s faster than 1st -> for "perfect" 800 :

1'43 = 52/51

1'42 = 51.5/50.5

1'41 = 51/50

only argument physiologically offered is phospho-creatinine pathway, but i've seen no evidence to find if it isn't exhausted initially, it can't be drawn on somewhat at the end - where do they find that late burst otherwise ?!

and I think what you need to understand is that people aren't robots, and there isn't one perfect way to run a race, and a perfect race is never going to happen. In highschool I ran a lot of 800s, often trying to peak perfectly and getting tons of rest before important ones. In my grade 12 year I ran between 1:58.5 and 2:00 probably 10 times. I'd tried to break 1:58.5 off of 57,58,59,60 second first laps and I'd run roughly the same time on each of those laps.

My last meet of the season was the night after my grad and I went out, got hammered, and went to bed at 6:00 in the morning. My buddy had asked me to pace him for a 1:53 effort by going through 400m in 54 seconds (after getting up I wasn't even sure I would do that!). So I toed the line, completely hung over, and bolted to the front and ran my first lap in 54.0 seconds. No one was near me at all, and I felt decent, so I decided to keep going. The whole field rolled by me at 700m and I came home in an appalling 64.5 (8.5 second positive split), but still ran.... 1:58.5.

Afterwards I was so pissed at myself that I hadn't rested up before the race, but really, I wasn't in any better shape or any more rested than other races (I had run 1:59 low a couple of days before). Sometimes big races just happen, and they aren't scientifically sound, but no other preperation or execution would have made them any better.

fawn leibowitz wrote:The only time I can think of where absolutely everything came together and someone probably got the absolute most out of themselves is Bob Beamon in 1968

wrong example

the stats appear to indicate a change of wind judges somewhat prior to his jump ( other jumps earlier ) & this idiot didn't seem to realise that jumps have to be entered to tenths : e g +1.6 or -2.1, etc ( other judges gave winds to 1st dp )

the idiot seemed to "round down" for wind, so anything 1.0 - 1.9 was rounded down to 1.0, 2.0 - 2.9 was rounded down to 2.0

consensus is that bob got a jump anywhere upto +2.9 on this scenario

even worse, it's postulated from his recordings this moron entered any whopping wind however big as 2.0, meaning he thought you just enter "2.0" on scoreboard if wind is huge, not knowing the consequences on record books ( they quickly dragged the moron off once others figured out his incompetence & booted him back to his chimichanga stall )

in all probability, it's likely bob had a wind of 3 or 4m/s on that jump ( even at 8,000' )

Wilson or Seb, Seb or Wilson as 1-2 all time. Who goes 2-5?

let's talk?

Your time adjustments for wind factor may be correct for a 100m sprinter weighing 13st.

But they are not correct for a 9st guy running at 800m pace. Have you ever run into the wind it slows more than that. Anyway you cannot really compare runners from different eras as we ignoring the psychological factor of knowing certain times are possible - not to mention improved training, tracks etc

By the way I was very impressed with Lagat's recent win in the Elmsley Car Mile- a masterful display of tactics and finishing. He's a wiley old fox and that 1,000m racing under his best distance means he is looking good for the WC's.

Then I'd say that everything really did go right for him.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

Your time adjustments for wind factor may be correct for a 100m sprinter weighing 13st

no

that calculator also works for women sprinters who don't weigh 13st, but do weigh nearer 9st