Drug Cheat Lombard Crushes Cragg

if some guy raped your wife, took her dignity, but then served a jail sentence and came round to you to say he was sorry - would you forgive as easily and support him as you do this scumbag?

He raped the sport, took it's dignity, he knew he wasn't good enough to have the results, so he cheated and took them. If he wasn't caught he'd be basking in the glory of his times & records for years to come. He's shown no remorse as far as acknowledging the damage he did to the sport, only remorse for himself (in that he was caught).

lets send all cheating scum to your place in Korea so you can kiss their ar5es as much as you do this twonk.

Lombards case is the saddest drugs case I have yet to come across. It may be hard for Americans to put this case in context but let me try.

Distance running is a small community in Ireland. People know each other. You race the same people all the time. You beat him at under 9s, he beats you at under 16s, your club wins a national team medal at juniors against the clubs nemisis from Dublin and so on. Its cosy and familiar.

Cathal was part of this scene. I dont know exactly when he started running (we're not the same age) but he was around for a long time.

He ran AAI juvenile and junior races (u19) for his club (leevale) and county (cork). He was ok. He was known but never feared. His brother Fiachra was the better prospect it was always felt.

Cathal didnt go to America on scholarship. Only very few of the really top drawer runners dont go to America. But he wasnt top drawer and wasnt courted by top universities in the US. He stayed at home and went to University College Cork and lived with his family.

Cathal progressed 'neatly' from Junior to Big-Boy athletics. He ran the world student games cross country - his big breakthrough - except that most Irish Student athletes are in the US and dont bother.

But he was always there. Racing the nationals and the county championships. Known but not reknowned. He was part of the scene. He was one of us. He wasnt Mark Carroll or Niall Bruton. They were far more talented better with an amazing pedigree at Junior level and - most importantly - they were in the US. They were international.

Then we saw him improve, improve rapidly from a 3030 10k runner to a 1316 / 2740 type and we were delighted. He did it in Santry, he trained in Marley Park and UCD. Thats where we trained! If he could do it then we could do it! What were his secrets? Pilates he told us. Pilates and progression runs. Get your diet right, lads. It was a privilege to talk to him now, not that he ever had much to say. But he'd made it, we'd all made it! The system worked!

Then he destroyed it all! As the young poster (21 year old) said earlier... "He was an inspiration (so i thought) that dedication and hard work will get you there in the end, my coach preached about him, then 2months later BAM..........drug cheat. I was gutted...".

He ruined it for a lot of people, mostly the guys a few years younger looking for inspiration. So many have dropped out of the sport since. He hadnt made it! We hadnt made it! We couldnt make it! "We're white" said Cathal, "We're just not good enough."

Mark Carroll said it best "... he didnt take drugs to level the playing field, he took drugs to get to the playing field..."

And now. Now he turns up and races again. He takes a superb days athletics and turns it into something nasty. Has he no shame? Vinny was right. I'd have refused the medal.

Actually, here's what I'd love to see happen ... Vinny and the Thieving Gypsy are head to head with a mile to go. Vinny pulls away up a long incline. The Thief is tiring and stumbling along in the mud. In the final straight Vinny is 20 meters clear but just before the line he eases up, turns and roars "c'mon, if you want it, here it is. I'll even give it to you this time." Vinny then walks off the course leaving the Gypsy with the fool's gold.

I think ghost should read your post.

This is the thing that I do not think you seem to realize. Knowing what level he was at before the drugs that got him to 13.55/28.09 then 13.19/27.33 it is impossible that he is not still benefiting from the effects of drugs. He never won an Irish XC title before the drugs - was never even that close. And yet now he's beating a guy (Cragg) who probably thought he would run IRish nationals and win at a canter. Again as lots of other people have talked about Cathal gave lots of interviews with people talking about the reason for his improvements. The balls on him. how the hell did he sleep at night opening up IRish runner and seeing that stretching and plyometrics had him running so well hwne he knew all along it was the drugs.

And people like ghost come on here and defend him. Go F yourself you pric*.

that just about sums it up - its all very well for ghost to go on about 'served his time, made a mistake' blah blah blah but the guy above just put it in context - he DIDNT make a mistake, he CHOSE to cheat, chose to lie, chose to take all the accolades and the 10k record, KNOWING he was firing EPO into himself to make it happen. What about the sport, as described above, that he ruined for many fans, believers, supporters and dreamers - they don't get rehabilitated, they just see this wanker turn up at their national race without a care in the world and ruin it.

You all make good points, but don't you think vindictiveness and hate has its limits?

Cathal cheated, yes - but major criminal? Does he really deserve to be shunned for the rest of his life for what he did? I think not.

Ghost in Korea

c.moulton (www.gifle.go.kr) apply now, good conditions for runners, and savings potential up to $25,000 tax free per year. Go to webpage.

there were a few Irish there that night at Stanford when Lombard ran 27:44. I was sitting row 1 at the finish line and had a big tricolor draped over the fence. We were all there to see Sonia run and to be honest I don't think anyone even knew Lombard was running until they called his name at the start of the 10,000m

Then he goes out and runs 27:44 and we are all looking at eachother scratching our heads wondering if he missed a lap or something...but we all cheered nonetheless.

Cathal Lombard walked straight off the track without even cracking a smile or attempting a wave of recognition. Looking back he looked like a guy who knew that it was only a matter of time before he'd get caught. He looked embarassed to have run faster than Mark Carroll.

When Dan Lilot confirmed it was a "legit" Irish record I don't think anyone believed it. Sounds like deja vu all overagain after reading the Belfast race reports...I don;t think anyone belives this guy.

What was the reaction inside Ireland when Michelle Smith (de Bruin) tested positive? I expect this would color public opinion towards any subsequent drug cheat.

Forget about the reaction inside Ireland, I want to know what the reaction inside Leevale is like. Is Mark Carroll still a member? if so what does he think about Lombard still running in a Leevale singlet?

Cragg showed a lot of class by shaking Cathal's hand on the podium after the race. Yes, no doubt he did not approve of Lombard's past, but accepts that humans are fallible and commit wrongs. Cragg recognized that Lombard is a 'very strong cross country runner' and it stopped at that.

Leevale Athletic club, Cork, also showed decency in allowing Lombard the chance to redeem himself in part two of his athletics career.

Interesting to compare running with cycling, where (in cycling) many former dopers have come back and won races and been acclaimed as champions.

We are all now waiting to see how Cathal does in the marathon, and going by his short distance form should be good for around 2:12-2:15 debut at the distance, unless he blows up in the race.

My former team mate at Dundrum, Roy Dooney, was not really a talented runner (big and heavy boned) but eventually got onto the Irish team in cross country and ran as fast as 29:00 and 2:13, actually winning the Twin Cities Marathon one year.

Those were the pre-epo days, where graft and hard work got you results. I grew up in Ireland in the 60's and 70's and my heroes were Des McGann (Civil Service), Dan McDaid (Clonliffe), Ted Keegan (Naas), Tom O'Riordan, and my schoolboy heroes were Derek Carrol, Gerry Finnegan, the Greene brothers - all Clonliffe, and Gerry Redmond (Avondale) and others.

My coach, Eddy McDonagh, showed us all how anyone with basic ability could go far in running, through a good program of training and regular rest.

Ghost in Korea

www.gifle.go.kr

(chris moulton), apply now, good conditions and savings of up to $25,000 per year.

You posted above the he should not have to live with his mistake for the rest of his life. Agreed.

But you refuse to answer any points made above about what benefit he is still getting from taking drugs.

Before taking drugs Cathal Lombard was a guy who never broke 14 never broke 30 and never got close to winning an Irish title.

He is now beating a guy who ran sub 13.40 a few weeks ago - all be it on a muddy course - and winning a national title.

Something is not right about that.

I guess another way to look at it is - he cannot be banished from the sport - but no one has any respect from him. I too had conversations with him where by stretching and drills were responsible for his 3 minutes improvements. Everyone that listened to this and 'believed' his 27.33 was legit should have mug written over their forehead. Lots of people didn't though.

Cathal has been close to winning this race before -

1999 - 5th

2000 - 8th

2001 - 5th

2002 - 3rd

2003 - 2nd

Trust me - Cathal has a lot more ability than people give him credit for - without benefits of EPO or other performance enhancing substances, and Cathal is intelligent enough to know that he will never benefit by trying to cross the line again.

The point is, he has proved now, clean, that he can be a top level runner - without drugs...and at this stage, some years after taking the stuff, there are no longer any residual (advantage) effects of having taken EPO.

I think people have a problem now with Cathal, because he is showing Ireland (and the world) that he can be a top performer 'clean.' Believe me, he is being tested right, left and centre these days, and there is nothing on him.

It is admirable that Cathal has come back to such a high level, after all the problems he faced.

Ghost in Korea

www.gifle.go.kr

c.moulton, apply now, good conditions and savings potential of up to $25,000 per year, tax free. Apply today. B.Ed. or M.Ed. preferred, but B.A. + CELTA acceptable.

trust you? why should we? you sound like the kind of apologist who always come out defedning people who fail tests. What vested interest do you have? How do you know how much testing he is now subjected to, or how he definately isnt on still on the gear, or even more unless you are a trained biologist / chemist how you know there is no lasting effect of EPO use. If you have eveidence of all this - lay out instead of spouting half baked opinion all the way from Korea.

I'm sure Lombard told people to 'trust him' when he was ripping it up in 04, before his self-caused fall from grace.

Why are you on here giving it the big one about some average proven drugs cheat. You should give support / encouragement to the guys who would never ever touch anything dodgy, who work hard, CLEAN, day after day for whatever level they get to, and are never so weak willed as to think its their god-given right to run a certain time so repeatedly, cynically pump themselves up on the juice.

we should forgive each other. Piece. We are all winners, dope or no dope!

PS your quote:

"It is admirable that Cathal has come back to such a high level, after all the problems he faced. "

Problems? Problems? Deliberately deceiving people, lying and cheating isn't a 'problem'? ITS ALL SELF CAUSED?! What f'ing planet are you on?

Illness is a problem, injury is a problem, demanding work or home life is a problem. Getting on the internet and ordering a nice fat stash of EPO isn't a problem, it's just the behaviour of a pathetic selfish ignorent fool.

Agreed, Cragg summed it up..... in saying something like, the dope took him to a higher level of running. Sport is 80% mental attitude, believing you can do it. The dope took him there, that's why all cheats should be banned for life. The advantage is huge, the tests only see the physical, not the mental improvements. Lombard knows now he can be there, trained at the higher level. just his training took him past the other athletes.....CHEAT

No Cathal does not have a lot more credit than people give him for. There are probably about ten runners in Ireland who are at a similar standard to him and he seperated himself from that crowd by taking performance enhancing drugs. how do you know any residual affects have left him? How do you know he was not continuing to juice that whole two years when he was not running? As a poster said above - it is mental he still has that benefit. He is actually probably getting a benefit from all of this as well - he is using people's negativity to his benefit.

Its funny - when it comes to Chambers I feel a bit different. Think of the contrast between Chambers and Lombard. Chambers was always a talented world class athlete. he got caught - admitted it served his time and came back. whilst i am sure that chambers gave interviews talking about how hard he trains - i am sure he did not give interviews saying he had revolutionized his training by starting to stretch and this was the only reason for his recent improvement. and chambers did not tell lots of peopole - you can run 13.19 if you start to stretch.

You all make good points, and I see where you are coming from.

It is interesting to compare Lombard with Richard Virenque of France - the great mountain climbing Tour de France cyclist. When Virenque got 'busted' a few years ago, he vehemently denied taking drugs, but then when irrefutable proof was presented, Virenque "broke down" and admitted taking EPO, and France forgave him. He was acclaimed a National hero, and France still loves him. He continued his career, and won several stages after that. People in France did not obsess over the fact that he had crossed the line in the past. Let bygones be bygones was the gallic philosophy, and that was, in my book, a more meritorious attitude, than all this hate being propagated by a sizeable number in this Lombard case.

Lombard, on the other hand, has been shunned by many, and continues to be so. Perhaps the Anglo saxon and celtic culture is more unforgiving for those who have sinned, but it does not have to be so.

There are people who have committed far more heinous crimes than Lombard who are not treated in that way.

Not saying that what Lombard did was good, but all this hate is not productive. It appears to be over the top. I don't think Alastair Cragg feels that way, judging by his behavior to Lombard after the race, when the two could be spotted chatting, with Cragg later shaking Cathal's hand. Cragg, appeared to keep the whole saga into perspective.

Ghost in Korea

www.gifle.go.kr

(apply now, good pay and conditions, with savings of up to $25,000 per year possible), c.moulton

For some reason it is giving me great delight to see all the begrudgers in Ireland sinking their teeth into this one. It shows their true nature like nothing before. It shows how they don't have the least bit of doubt in trying to take Cathal down again despite what he has said about wanting to come back and show that it can be done clean.

Let's just say that he is doing it clean and is trying to do the right thing and he actually does well. Is this not a good opportunity to actually really show that doing it clean does work?

What about this being sport... where we get to stretch the barriers of human potential in every way?...both physical mental and moral. Yes, Cathal did it wrong first and we all showed him how angry we were and how stupid he was. But how about we stretch it the other way. What about forgiveness and the positive values of sport and sportsmanship? It makes me sick to see the amount of people in Ireland who will readily shoot you down over a bad performance or a mistake or poor training... but they'd bite their own tongue before they'd offer you a word of encouragement.

If you're going to criticise Cathal and take him down... go ahead ...but make sure that at the same time, you find some young distance runner somewhere out training in the cold and wet and just go and offer him a few words of encouragement. I really don't care what happens with Cathal and whether he is forgiven or not. What he's doing these days for redemption is largely for himself. People won't take notice of him if he does well and says he is doing it clean. We aren't enlightened enough in Ireland to be able to go beyond ourselves and actually promote something like this. The testers will make sure they have them down on their schedule between now and the Olympics plenty of times. So if he does do well, it probably won't be due to drugs unless he is really smart and mean about it.

Having worked in elite sport physiology, its impossible for there to be any benefit of the EPO even after a couple of weeks of not taking it. Psychological theories presented here don't really stand up... if anything Cathal would have doubts over not beingable to get near the standards he was at with the EPO. Also since the Marathon requires alot more from you than just physiological performance proportionally compared to 10k, if he was on the EPO he'll have to do alot more than turn up and perform like he did at National XC to do well in the marathon.

So come on you begrudgers... tell me about all the people you have praised and helped and coached. Tell me about all the positive contributions you have made to the sport if you think you can stand on your pedestals and preach about how bad Cathal has been and how he should go off and crawl in a hole somewhere. I'd prefer if he did myself because I'm going to be trying to run the Marathon myself at a high level in the next couple of years and I don't want people questioning my performances, but I won't begrudge the guy another chance. I believe in sport about being more than petty little ego's. I believe its more about striving for higher ideals and this is a chance to actually strive to be bigger than we normally are ...get away from our small mindedness and actually forgive a guy.