Japanese training system in Fukuoka,

The focus on road running and Ekidens from an early age diminishes speed for the track.

Tuesday December 18

Murume district of Fukuoka:

I was invited to observe a workout for the local running club. All youth in the 12-15 age group.

One boy (Fukuda) is only 12 years old, and has run 9:40 for track 3000, which is at the top level for his age group in Japan.

Training: One week, will be 6 days training, and the next week will be 4 days of training.

Mixture of training, from 5km to 8km in distance. Slow recovery runs, and timed intervals over 1km on the road, circling the stadium.

Also 200m sprints (on the road!) outside the stadium.

Then stepping up and down onto a low wall for about 10 minutes - intense work, simulating running upstairs.

Although there are soft paths and green places, the Japanese focus on timing everything, leads to coaches feeling more comfortable having their athltes doing loops around road or park courses.

Also saw the female elite high school team running their basic run　around Ohori, with their coach following by bike, shouting out splits for every circuit.

They end the session by doing fast strides (200m) on the dirt path in the park. Short fast, rapid strides. They all seem to have the same style. Short strides, low knee lift, and rapid turnover.

You may shout `gambate` to them as they run, but they will not acknowledge you, such is the focus and intesity,

The future of the young runner, Fukuda (12 years), is a question mark, because he may burn out by the time he reaches 18. Too much hard surface running cannot be good for the lower limbs. Also everyone here seems to prefer wearing light flats,which resemble racing flats, or similar. You do not see many heavy training shoes being used here.

Tonight, some of the athletes will go to the Onsen, to recover for the muscles. Cost - 700 yen. Good deal.

Ghost in Fukuoka

The focus on road running and Ekidens from an early age diminishes speed for the track.

Tuesday December 18

Murume district of Fukuoka:

I was invited to observe a workout for the local running club. All youth in the 12-15 age group.

One boy (Fukuda) is only 12 years old, and has run 9:40 for track 3000, which is at the top level for his age group in Japan.

Training: One week, will be 6 days training, and the next week will be 4 days of training.

Mixture of training, from 5km to 8km in distance. Slow recovery runs, and timed intervals over 1km on the road, circling the stadium.

Also 200m sprints (on the road!) outside the stadium.

Then stepping up and down onto a low wall for about 10 minutes - intense work, simulating running upstairs.

Although there are soft paths and green places, the Japanese focus on timing everything, leads to coaches feeling more comfortable having their athltes doing loops around road or park courses.

Also saw the female elite high school team running their basic run　around Ohori, with their coach following by bike, shouting out splits for every circuit.

They end the session by doing fast strides (200m) on the dirt path in the park. Short fast, rapid strides. They all seem to have the same style. Short strides, low knee lift, and rapid turnover.

You may shout `gambate` to them as they run, but they will not acknowledge you, such is the focus and intesity,

The future of the young runner, Fukuda (12 years), is a question mark, because he may burn out by the time he reaches 18. Too much hard surface running cannot be good for the lower limbs. Also everyone here seems to prefer wearing light flats,which resemble racing flats, or similar. You do not see many heavy training shoes being used here.

Tonight, some of the athletes will go to the Onsen, to recover for the muscles. Cost - 700 yen. Good deal.

Ghost in Fukuoka

The focus on road running and Ekidens from an early age diminishes speed for the track.

Tuesday December 18

Murume district of Fukuoka:

I was invited to observe a workout for the local running club. All youth in the 12-15 age group.

One boy (Fukuda) is only 12 years old, and has run 9:40 for track 3000, which is at the top level for his age group in Japan.

Training: One week, will be 6 days training, and the next week will be 4 days of training.

Mixture of training, from 5km to 8km in distance. Slow recovery runs, and timed intervals over 1km on the road, circling the stadium.

Also 200m sprints (on the road!) outside the stadium.

Then stepping up and down onto a low wall for about 10 minutes - intense work, simulating running upstairs.

Although there are soft paths and green places, the Japanese focus on timing everything, leads to coaches feeling more comfortable having their athltes doing loops around road or park courses.

Also saw the female elite high school team running their basic run　around Ohori, with their coach following by bike, shouting out splits for every circuit.

They end the session by doing fast strides (200m) on the dirt path in the park. Short fast, rapid strides. They all seem to have the same style. Short strides, low knee lift, and rapid turnover.

You may shout `gambate` to them as they run, but they will not acknowledge you, such is the focus and intesity,

The future of the young runner, Fukuda (12 years), is a question mark, because he may burn out by the time he reaches 18. Too much hard surface running cannot be good for the lower limbs. Also everyone here seems to prefer wearing light flats,which resemble racing flats, or similar. You do not see many heavy training shoes being used here.

Tonight, some of the athletes will go to the Onsen, to recover for the muscles. Cost - 700 yen. Good deal.

Ghost in Fukuoka

The focus on road running and Ekidens from an early age diminishes speed for the track.

Tuesday December 18

Murume district of Fukuoka:

I was invited to observe a workout for the local running club. All youth in the 12-15 age group.

One boy (Fukuda) is only 12 years old, and has run 9:40 for track 3000, which is at the top level for his age group in Japan.

Training: One week, will be 6 days training, and the next week will be 4 days of training.

Mixture of training, from 5km to 8km in distance. Slow recovery runs, and timed intervals over 1km on the road, circling the stadium.

Also 200m sprints (on the road!) outside the stadium.

Then stepping up and down onto a low wall for about 10 minutes - intense work, simulating running upstairs.

Although there are soft paths and green places, the Japanese focus on timing everything, leads to coaches feeling more comfortable having their athltes doing loops around road or park courses.

Also saw the female elite high school team running their basic run　around Ohori, with their coach following by bike, shouting out splits for every circuit.

They end the session by doing fast strides (200m) on the dirt path in the park. Short fast, rapid strides. They all seem to have the same style. Short strides, low knee lift, and rapid turnover.

You may shout `gambate` to them as they run, but they will not acknowledge you, such is the focus and intesity,

The future of the young runner, Fukuda (12 years), is a question mark, because he may burn out by the time he reaches 18. Too much hard surface running cannot be good for the lower limbs. Also everyone here seems to prefer wearing light flats,which resemble racing flats, or similar. You do not see many heavy training shoes being used here.

Tonight, some of the athletes will go to the Onsen, to recover for the muscles. Cost - 700 yen. Good deal.

Ghost in Fukuoka

The focus on road running and Ekidens from an early age diminishes speed for the track.

Tuesday December 18

Murume district of Fukuoka:

I was invited to observe a workout for the local running club. All youth in the 12-15 age group.

One boy (Fukuda) is only 12 years old, and has run 9:40 for track 3000, which is at the top level for his age group in Japan.

Training: One week, will be 6 days training, and the next week will be 4 days of training.

Mixture of training, from 5km to 8km in distance. Slow recovery runs, and timed intervals over 1km on the road, circling the stadium.

Also 200m sprints (on the road!) outside the stadium.

Then stepping up and down onto a low wall for about 10 minutes - intense work, simulating running upstairs.

Although there are soft paths and green places, the Japanese focus on timing everything, leads to coaches feeling more comfortable having their athltes doing loops around road or park courses.

Also saw the female elite high school team running their basic run　around Ohori, with their coach following by bike, shouting out splits for every circuit.

They end the session by doing fast strides (200m) on the dirt path in the park. Short fast, rapid strides. They all seem to have the same style. Short strides, low knee lift, and rapid turnover.

You may shout `gambate` to them as they run, but they will not acknowledge you, such is the focus and intesity,

The future of the young runner, Fukuda (12 years), is a question mark, because he may burn out by the time he reaches 18. Too much hard surface running cannot be good for the lower limbs. Also everyone here seems to prefer wearing light flats,which resemble racing flats, or similar. You do not see many heavy training shoes being used here.

Tonight, some of the athletes will go to the Onsen, to recover for the muscles. Cost - 700 yen. Good deal.

Ghost in Fukuoka

The focus on road running and Ekidens from an early age diminishes speed for the track.

Tuesday December 18

Murume district of Fukuoka:

I was invited to observe a workout for the local running club. All youth in the 12-15 age group.

One boy (Fukuda) is only 12 years old, and has run 9:40 for track 3000, which is at the top level for his age group in Japan.

Training: One week, will be 6 days training, and the next week will be 4 days of training.

Mixture of training, from 5km to 8km in distance. Slow recovery runs, and timed intervals over 1km on the road, circling the stadium.

Also 200m sprints (on the road!) outside the stadium.

Then stepping up and down onto a low wall for about 10 minutes - intense work, simulating running upstairs.

Although there are soft paths and green places, the Japanese focus on timing everything, leads to coaches feeling more comfortable having their athltes doing loops around road or park courses.

Also saw the female elite high school team running their basic run　around Ohori, with their coach following by bike, shouting out splits for every circuit.

They end the session by doing fast strides (200m) on the dirt path in the park. Short fast, rapid strides. They all seem to have the same style. Short strides, low knee lift, and rapid turnover.

You may shout `gambate` to them as they run, but they will not acknowledge you, such is the focus and intesity,

The future of the young runner, Fukuda (12 years), is a question mark, because he may burn out by the time he reaches 18. Too much hard surface running cannot be good for the lower limbs. Also everyone here seems to prefer wearing light flats,which resemble racing flats, or similar. You do not see many heavy training shoes being used here.

Tonight, some of the athletes will go to the Onsen, to recover for the muscles. Cost - 700 yen. Good deal.

Ghost in Fukuoka

The focus on road running and Ekidens from an early age diminishes speed for the track.

Tuesday December 18

Murume district of Fukuoka:

I was invited to observe a workout for the local running club. All youth in the 12-15 age group.

One boy (Fukuda) is only 12 years old, and has run 9:40 for track 3000, which is at the top level for his age group in Japan.

Training: One week, will be 6 days training, and the next week will be 4 days of training.

Mixture of training, from 5km to 8km in distance. Slow recovery runs, and timed intervals over 1km on the road, circling the stadium.

Also 200m sprints (on the road!) outside the stadium.

Then stepping up and down onto a low wall for about 10 minutes - intense work, simulating running upstairs.

Although there are soft paths and green places, the Japanese focus on timing everything, leads to coaches feeling more comfortable having their athltes doing loops around road or park courses.

Also saw the female elite high school team running their basic run　around Ohori, with their coach following by bike, shouting out splits for every circuit.

They end the session by doing fast strides (200m) on the dirt path in the park. Short fast, rapid strides. They all seem to have the same style. Short strides, low knee lift, and rapid turnover.

You may shout `gambate` to them as they run, but they will not acknowledge you, such is the focus and intesity,

The future of the young runner, Fukuda (12 years), is a question mark, because he may burn out by the time he reaches 18. Too much hard surface running cannot be good for the lower limbs. Also everyone here seems to prefer wearing light flats,which resemble racing flats, or similar. You do not see many heavy training shoes being used here.

Tonight, some of the athletes will go to the Onsen, to recover for the muscles. Cost - 700 yen. Good deal.

Ghost in Fukuoka

Interesting reading. Thanks for the contributions to the board

I didn't quite get ghost's last post. Please repost it again. :)

Name: Hiro

Age: 20 years

Team: Nishitetsu

Height/weight: 1.70/50 kilos

Times: 3000 - 8:11, 5000 - 14:08, 10,000 - 29:26

Training: 150-200km per week.

Typical week:

Monday 60 minutes am, 60 minutes pm

Tuesday 60 minutes am, 20 km pm, in 1:10

Wednesday 60 minutes am and 60 minutes pm

Thursday Track 400-1000-2000 reps, in 66 secs, 2:55, 5:55, with 2 minutes rest between intervals

Friday 60 minutes am and 60 minutes pm

Saturday - Free running in countryside

Sunday - time trial from 20-30km

Pace on normal runs is 4 minutes per km, which is just over 6 minutes per mile, so this is not slow running, by this runner, and quite a few others like him.

I saw him run his Tuesday time trial over 20km, and it was windy and cool, so he only ran 1:12, but he looked very comfortable.

Today, I was surprised to see the same runner do his easy running on the baseball field (at the top of the park), doing 20km by going around a 300m field. At least the ground is soft.

Ghost in Fukuoka

you are a jerk

Date: Thursday December 20, 2007

Location: Ohori Koen Park, Fukuoka

Race observed: Junior High school Ekiden races

This morning there were Junior High school mixed Ekiden races, and this was very interesting to observe, because you then have an idea what non athltes can run, and it was very impressive, because a whole bunch of kids were running around 6:30 for the 2km loop, and these are kids who are only 13-15 years old. And most of them are not athletes. They are just built for running.

Comparing these Japanese kids to similar age group kids in North America or Europe, one can immediately see that the Japanese kids have an advantage, when it comes to running, as most are built small and light, and run in an economical way.

There is very little obesity here, although it is rising, but nowhere near the levels in our countries. Even compared with Korea, I find the Japanese, in general, to be not only slimmer, but also smaller in stature.

Also, interesting to note how much support the students get from their peers, and the mothers who come out to watch the races. It is all very well organized, and some of the teachers, no doubt, direct the best prospects to the local clubs and the high school elite teams.

This morning, I went for a 50 minutes run, from Muromi subway station along the river, which has a wide grass path, alongside the road path. Interesting to note, that despite the fact that there is soft ground available, the other joggers prefer to run on the road surface.

At the races this morning for the Junior high school, the favored shoe by those wearing racing shoes is Mizuno.

The Onsen was very relaxing, and I went with the school director, who is normally very quiet, but in the Onsen he became extraordinarily talkative. The effect of the hot water and steam loosens the tongue. Weight going into the Onsen - 72.30 kilos, going out - 71.30.

Christmas party at my school soon. Be prepared for some wild and raucous party times, which the Japanese love.

Ghost in Fukuoka

.................... wrote:

After reading the workout on the first page, my first question was why has there only been 1 Japanese runner to go under 13:15? I know there's a huge focus on the marathon, but still. If B level runners are running those workouts, then the there must be a buch of A level guys know could run closer to 13 flat.

I don't want to be a dick to you, but after reading that workout I kept thinking, "Why is this impressive or special?"

This was a 20k tempo run at 5:38 pace. THE END.

Since when is this news? It was stated that the best guy in the bunch was a 28:58 10k runner. Folks, keep in mind that is 4:39 pace PER MILE. Is it even advisible to run a hard run (with no hills) that slowly when you are at that level? I assume that most of the boys were around 29:30-30:30 for a track 10k, so that is really slow for that level of runner.

When I was in high school I regularly ran 10 miles over decent hills (for where I live) on a dirt road course at 5:30 pace and I was killing it, probably running 10-15 secs per mile slower than ALL-OUT and definitely running all-out the last mile or two. I thought this was a good idea ... maybe it was I don't know.

My point is that I was a 4:30/9:40 runner at this point, so I had to be in the 32:00-33:00 area for 10k. I.E. way slower than them in the distances. I was very well endurance-trained and ran about 80-85 a week, but was nowhere near the 14:00-14:30/29:00-31:00 level that seems to be implied here.

So there is nothing special about those runners running that particular workout, except that it is especially slow. It is definitely too slow to be an LT-workout, so it is likely targeting some other physiological property.

Name: Kusaga

Age: 20

Team: Nishitetsu

Height/weight: 1:69/52 kilos

Best times: 5000 14.22, 10,000 29:47

Base work is 150 - 200km per week.

1 track session per week. 400`s in 66-68

1000`s in 2:50-2:55

Number of reps: 400 times 20 with 60 secs rest

1000 times 10 with 2 minutes rest

2000 times 5 with 2 minutes rest

Every month: 30 km time trial on the roads, or Ohori Park, every km is marked, and the coaches keep track.

Usual time to complete the 30km: Between 1:45-1:50

I have seen a few of the 30km trials, in Ohori Park, 2km circuit, and you have to admire the athletes, as running the same loop 15 times is soul destroying, but the Japanese just lock into a rhythm and get the job done. Expressionless faces, with a bunch running together. Encouraging them by shouting `gambate` has little effect, as they are so focused on their task. `Gaijin` on bicycles are of little interest to these focused athletes, but they will speak to you after their session, but their English is usually poor, so discussion usually revolves around numbers and stats.

When they run in a group there is little or no chit chat, just focus, focus, focus. These runs usually get progressively faster, until in the last 5km the athletes get down to about 3.25 per km pace. Impressive to watch.

The new fashion now for the top athletes are the asics shorts which are longer in length than your normal running shorts, coming down to almost knee level, but they are extremely light in weight. They certainly look a lot better than skimpy running shorts, and would sell well in the U.S.

Yesterday afternoon, at Ohori, I observed a 10km time trial by one of the University teams in Fukuoka. This is just an average team, but they all covered the 10km between 34:00-34:40. There were 8 runners. The athletes in question have best times of around 15:30 for 5000m, so they are operating close to their maximum pace.

On t.v. today they showed how youth gangs do a lot of damage by spray painting their gang names and messages on public walls and buildings. Every day the old men from the Municipal office go out and take the stuff off, but then it starts again.

Despite this, crime in Japan is very low, and you never feel under threat here, even when walking home late at night. You can sleep on a park bench and no one will touch your stuff. Safe country and respectful, law abiding people.

Ghost in Fukuoka

Cheers Ghost for sharing your observations on how some Japanese marathon runners train. However, can you try and find out how the coaches prepare their athletes for a marathon? I'm interested to know more about their longest tempo runs ( eg their mammouth 40kers); how many they do and at what stage of their buildup they do them. Try and ask at least 2 or 3 coaches, as I'm sure that they have own different methods.

Jason, interesting to hear about Shibui's 40k session three weeks before one of her marathons.

So far, not a single marathon runner in Fukuoka that I have met (ranging in time from 2:14-2:45) has run further than 30km (time trial) session.

30km is the preferred distance for these runners, and no one here, uses 40km as a distance for the marathon.

As it takes about 1:40-1:50 for these 2:20 marathon guys to run 30km, that is enough training for that event, especially, as the pace is quite fast, and is usually always a progressivily faster run.

Many athletes in this range (29:30/10,000, 1:04 half marathon) use the 20km time trial once or even twice a week. That is very specific, and pays great dividends, when the pace is right.

All this keeping track of pace, gives many of these athletes a fine knowledge of how to maintain pace. They can tell you their time on each loop even without looking at their watch, but they still look and press those buttons, to enter their numbers in their diaries which they all keep.

Ghost in Fukuoka

LT work for over an hour (unless it`s intervals), is extremely difficult and if possible not advicable doing regularly. The lesson should be, maybe to slow down and extend some of your workouts. Depending of course, what you want to accomplish..

Jason,

How long a training run would you advise for a 2.50 guy who keeps hitting the wall at 30-35 km in a race, and also what sort of tempo runs and how far,

thanks

Assuming your goal pace has been realistic, it's all in the mind. You have to make the transition in your mind first and one way to do it is by running a weekly 35 km long run (preferably with some long rather than short and steep climb around or after the 25 km mark):

W1: 35 slow

W2: 32 slow + 3 marathon pace

W3: 29 + 6

W4: 26 + 9

W5: 23 + 12

W6: 23 + 15

W7: 35 real slow

W8: Marathon

You will feel like a piece of dog turd after many of these, but assuming you won't overdo the mileage during the week, you will recover.

There are other ways to skin the cat and if you get yourself in shape to run 2:40, you don't have to train your mind to finish under 2:50...