Tour de France 2007

Canchellera!

Arch Stanton wrote:

Calm down, you're getting hysterical...

These are some of the best exchanges that I've seen on letsrun.com in quite a long time. Some hysterical posters make boisterous claims, rely on flawed logic and then resort to name calling. And all the while these wise old sages of cycling keep coming back with rationale replies in spite of the incessant badgering...

Funny stuff.

I've watched as much of the tour as I could since the early days of LeMonde and La Vie Claire. I'm not watching this year due to drug fatigue. But I'm sure I'll be back someday.

I tend to agree with an aforementioned quote that went something like this, "Armstrong won 7 Tours and didn't get caught, that is an incredible accomplishment!". I don't know if he doped, probable, but one thing is for sure, he didn't get caught. And in today's volatile environment of doctors, admissions and lawsuits that is quite an accomplishment in and of itself.

Speaking of not getting caught do any of you guys remember those little brown bottles that the cyclists used to suck down before the mountain stages in the 80's? I was talking with an old cycling buddy and he was sure they contained amphetamines, heroine and some other crazy stuff. It came up when LeMonde (whom I used to idolize - not so much anymore) took his high and mighty stance. Also any guesses on Indurain?

Ciao!

Indurain was completely free of drugs or thereabouts! The testing in the 80's was second to none

You're missing out, Jefe. Sure, if there were no drugs, it would be a little slower, and maybe the leader board would be shuffled a bit, and you wouldn't have to worry that your favorite riders turn out to be cheaters. Alas, there are drugs involved and probably always will be, BUT it's still great racing, fascinating strategy and high drama. The guys still train like mad and suffer like they always have.

I have never actually seen anything regarding Indurain using doping products. His biggest sin is dominantly winning the Tour of France and Tour of Italy during the start of the EPO era. I don't think there's any doubt that he was a physiological freak of nature (monstrous heart and lungs) perfectly suited to riding bicycles rapidly.

Lemond is an interesting case. When he retired, he claimed he had "mitochondrial myopathy", which sapped his energy. Now, he seems to have forgotten mitochondrial myopathy" and has concluded that he didn't get slower, the peloton all got faster because they were doped, but Saint Greg was clean and could no longer compete. He seems to have forgotten that in 1989, he set the record for the faster time trial in the Tour that finally got beaten in 2005. Somehow, clean Greg's record couldn't be beaten by the dirty peloton of the '90s and '00s, despite being doped up so much that Greg could no longer keep up with the peloton by '93. Now, he basically roams around accusing all the top riders of doping and trying to be the sanctimonous voice of the pure past when cycling was clean. I don't think he's well.

I don't know about the little brown bottles. I didn't see any of the Tours back then. Ask your friend how he knows what's in them.

You're right I should get back into it but maybe I should take it slow at first. Kinda like getting back together with an old girlfriend...My problem with Indurain was that he was too good for his size. He was the first big body to dominate in the mountains and then use that power to blow everyone away in the time trials. He would have had to be a 1 in a billion freak of nature to do that or...EPO wasn't around but blood doping was. Also, he is laying awfully low right now. Trying to deflect attention maybe? This is now my problem with most sports. When I see a great performance my first reaction is, "Wow his pharmcists really nailed that one!" I spend more time speculating than enjoying...Agreed on LeMonde. He was a great champion and innovator, there is still time for him to make a psychological come back...The info on the brown bottles were from a trainer, can't remember which team, that got busted at the border. I don't remember it as being the Festina guy. A little before that time, around '92? I think that Stephan Roache got caught up in it also. I could be wrong. In any event not sure how different stimulants are from blood boosters when it comes to PE's. What ever happened to the good old days when I would OD on Bee Pollen...

Whats in YOUR mullet? wrote:

What bizarre hand gesture was he making as he told that story?

Bob Roll is hilarious. He makes up for Al Trautwig.

I'm so glad my Tivo picks up the morning version cause

Al sucks. He's just some guy they hire to rattle off his mouth. The guy's probably never been on a bike in his life. he's simply a drama king designed to "bring the sport down to the ordinary person". i think the ordinary person would be more likely to become a fan by listening to phil and paul. Bob is great with Phil and Paul but the poor guy getting stuck with Al all day. compare the morning and the evening versions and the contrast in knowledge and depth in the commentary is striking.

Al T. is a tool when it comes to cycling. After so many years he oughta know his stuff a little better.

On the other hand, he's the better media professional of the bunch. I wonder what would happen to the broadcast if you left the MC-ing to Bob Roll. That guy gets sidetracked more easily than a golden retriever, so without Al you'd either have chaos or you'd have some other idiot who knows even less about cycling. I'll take Al, at least he has a sense of humor and plays to Bob Roll pretty well. Those guys spend a whole month together so the chemistry is pretty important.

Phil and Paul rock. The best commentator pair in sports, bar none. And cycling is not that easy. Quite a feat to keep it interesting during four hours of nothing, and then all of a sudden things happen so quickly you can't keep track.

The part of Versus' coverage I don't get is the parallel commentary. Why don't Al and Bob just stick to the studio bits and maybe go do some background reporting while the field is rolling? Why do they need two versions of commentary when the A team is so good?

I suspect that versus thinks that the A team is too in-depth for the average american cycling fan. the evening version is highly edited. the A-team will give the history of the town they are riding through, the last time a stage went through the town, the owners or the castles they pass by - you get a european history lesson while you watcht.

versus probably thinks that when people are flipping through the channels and come across a bike race, they want to make sure that the commentary is a couple of americans speaking like american sportscasters so that they don't immediately tune out.

there is no way that bob and al together could call a sprint finsh like paul and phil. those 2 can tell those riders apart just on their pedaling style! bob is also very knowledgable since he was a pro rider himself but al couldn't contribute much when 90 guys are sprinting towards the line at 60mph.

pen cup wrote:

...when 90 guys are sprinting towards the line at 60mph.

Well actually they are not going 60 mph (more like 40 mph) and really its not 90 guys its more like 8. But I suspect your suspicions are correct sir...

correct - i meant in excess of 60Kpm, not mph.

They do occasionally hit 60 mph on the descents. I believe it was Abraham Olano who was once clocked at 104 km/h during a stage in the Pyrenees.

Did anybody see today's mess?

This is why they shave legs and arms on the pro tour:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/07/12/sports/vinokourov.450.jpg

I hope Vinokourov can continue.

It was very bad luck for Vino to lose 80 seconds to his rivals on a crash like that. He could still win the tour, but probably can't afford a bad day in the upcoming alpine stages. It looked like he has good form, the way he was charging past all the weaker climbers up the final category 3 of the day. Nobody in that situation would have caught back up to the peleton because they were pushing hard in the last 20km. Reminds me of a stage in 2004, when Iban Mayo (back when he was good) crashed and even with his team helping him, lost about four minutes on a flat stage. I prefer the yellow jersey to be decided one on one in the mountains.

Maybe it's time that people start discussing this years tour on this thread?

I am watching. Don't know anything about any of the riders and this is the only time all year I watch cycling.

By the time the tour is over though, I will get to know the riders and enjoy myself for a few evenings. Since I can't run anymore, I have been pounding away on my stationary for about 8-10 hours a week and I can feel like I am riding along.

His fall is very unfortunate, but Vinokourov is as tough as any rider, and he will fight. His team may all be solid behind him now if Kloden drops with broken tail bone.

I now have a reason to watch, and a rider to pull for. With skin missing and all, he will attack in the mountains. Should be fun to watch. With all he's been through, I think Vino deserves a good result this year. You can see the other rider's respect for him.

Is Klodden out?

How could anyone not like Vinokourov? If he rides like he did in the Tour Of Spain last year he can still do it, but if Klodden is out then the team is weakened. Although Andreas is maybe Alexander's biggest rival so it could help him in that way if he is out. Kaschekin is a gun and he will give him huge support in the mountains.

Go Vino!

Yeah I was extremely impressed with Vino and I may not have cared before but now I will start to root for him. He showed alot of fight.

Kloden is probably out. He would go through hell riding over two weeks from a broken tailbone. Much worse than bruises and missing skin.

NY Times reported:

"...But Klöden might have been the more seriously injured of the two. The Associated Press reported that Klöden had a hairline fracture in his tailbone, and Vinokourov had deep cuts in his knees. Both riders went to nearby hospitals after the stage for further examination, and it was not clear if they would start Friday."

Also from his team manager:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/audio/sports/20070712_TOURDEFRANCE.mp3

that sucks. ive been a kloden fan for years now...he really had a chance to win this year.

i think this should become the official tour thread.