jebidia bochephus wrote:
Why so much talk of Don Sage, is he the only guy ever to by pass a post collegiate runner career to move on with his life?
Because Sage is an almost exact contemporary of Hall's who went to the same school, ran similar or faster times to Hall, and quit immiediately upon graduation. So he happens to be a particularly good comparison for "the road not taken."
Didn't Sell get $35k to show up at Chicago? After this shouldn't Hall expect $50-100k just for showing up at a marathon?
DARKNESS wrote:
Think about what you are saying. Nobody will ever "pay big bucks to watch running" for a lot of reasons. You can't watch XC or road racing or marathons by buying a ticket like you can with football or basketball.
The money in pro sports come from TV (not necessarily from tickets) and so "big money" will come when lots of people demand that LD-running be televised. When they do, the television will follow, then the money will come.
New York City Marathon is televised.
10th place overall = $1,000
Hmmmmm, not much money by my standards.
DARKNESS wrote:
Nobody will ever "pay big bucks to watch running" for a lot of reasons. You can't watch XC or road racing or marathons by buying a ticket like you can with football or basketball.
The money in pro sports come from TV (not necessarily from tickets) and so "big money" will come when lots of people demand that LD-running be televised. When they do, the television will follow, then the money will come.
What will it take to get distance running to become a popular TV sport (or just a TV sport)? Answer, Americans are winning and competing like the Kenyans/Ethopians are now.
If we win, the cameras will show up.
Look at cycling, it was unknown in this country 25 years ago. Then LeMond/Armstrong won and it not only was televised, but an either network used cycling to breakthrough the noise (OLN/Versus).
Americans start winning WC/Oly with regularity and the big bucks will flow.
Is This Fair? wrote:
Americans start winning WC/Oly with regularity and the big bucks will flow.
Well, this should be pretty easy to do. Unfortunately, a lot of people seem to be complaining that WC/Oly wins won't happen without big bucks support. But big bucks support won't happen without the medals. This could be a problem.
The vast majority of people either don't care and/or are not impacted by running performances. Hall's race this weekend included. For those in the mid or back of the pack finishing their half's in 2+ hours, they still don't care. Of course they are impressed by his performance and will probably say "wow, that guy is pretty amazing". And that will be it. Their focus is on their own race and those of their friends.
Same goes for the people watching the race. First of all, they aren't paying anything to stand on the curb. Second, they are mostly there to see friends and family running. Ryan Hall blazing by just isn't enough for most people to say "hey, I'm going to go by some Asics". It just doesn't work that way.
A commercial of Tiger Woods jogging around in some Air Max would probably sell more Nike running shoes than a commercial showing Hall (even if Hall had just run the world record).
Running just isn't that big of a sport to warrant big bucks being spent on lots of athletes. There are lots of other sports like this. There is a reason Home Depot has those ads on TV during the Olympics stating how more Olympic athletes work at Home Depot than any other company.
Hell, look at all the effort that has been put into trying to make soccer more popular in this country. And people still don't care.
Sell $35k appearance for LSB? Maybe after with bonus in addition to his placing prize money. Pinkowski's philosophy has always been "what can you bring to the race". A 210 needs to be in the mix at mile 26 with the 206-207 guys.
Run The Time...Make The Dime.
Economics of Running wrote:
All you guys that wish you could get paid to run should hope/pray Hall get millions. The more money the top runners get, the further down the list you can be and still get paid to run. So, for all you 14 minute 5k runners, wanna know how to get paid? Hope that Teg gets $3 to $5 million for a 13:04 PR. Hope Legat get more for a 12:59 PR. Then thir will be money for the 13:30 PR and maybe even the 14PR.
Or think of it this way. If Teg gets 100k/year for a 13:04 PR. And a 14k PR is worth 1/50 (2%) a 13:04 PR (which would be my guess), a 14 minute PR will net you $2
2,000/year. That will maybe over your expenses.
But if running was more popular and Teg made $3 million/year, a 14K means you would get paid $60,000 year to run!
So don't rationalise that their is enough money is distance running. This is a country of 300 million and maybe 20 people get paid to run. Hope for more, much much more!
We can "hope hope hope" all we want. We still have to be realistic. Given the state of American distance running, I think most people are aware that the amount of money in it is fitting. Hardly anyone besides us gives a shit about going to flocasts for race footage or some mid-day-two-week-late coverage of NCAAs on a regional fox sports net. Even had houston been televised, no one outside of the letsrun crowd would have been watching some bean pole kid run by himself under highway overpasses, around the occasional overweight jogger or curious onlooker on some non-descript street corner through the dreary pre-dawn overcast streets of houston. I don't think anyone who doesn't know exactly what's going on is going to call that engaging television.
Now maybe someone might pay attention if Mr. Hall shows up to USA Cross in boulder with a G.O.A.T. tattoo on his bulging right bicep and he takes a victory lap after high stepping his way to a 40 second win over his opponents, taunting them as thousands of Boulderites who paid $40 a pop cheer him on from their spot in the foot of snow on the golf course. This is of course after words were exchanged on the starting line by Ritz and Web and a commercial break interupted the first mile split, an incidental spiking at the 4k involving Teg and Goucher, and Ryan going through the 10k in course record pace. They of course showed the replay of the Ritz V Webb verbal sparring though. After millions of Americans turn their TVs off satisfied with the Rolling Stones 3 song set and Josh Cox cameo in between the Pro and Junior race, they rush to their local running specialty store to pick up their "Tegencamp" racing singlet and the latest "Hall 2120" trainers. Soon, Asics is directly competing with Nike and every sub 14 kid is doing their own under armor commercial. Unfortunately, hundreds of kids will be mugged in the ensuing weeks for their big new flashy "Halls."
Yeah, we can hope/pray for this scenario and millions for Hall. And all of us sub 14 5kers can hope and pray to make a meager living off of our running. But the money has got to come from somewhere. Yeah, maybe we aren't satisfied with the amount of money in distance running, but it doesn't mean we think we are entitled to more. A lot has to change first. Until then, we will be just hoping that Teg gets $3 to $5 million for a 13:04 PR, but it's going to take more than that.
not sure about ryan hall but i know a certain US runner who had a breakthrough season this year was in the 6 figures..still seems like a joke compared to what the "athletes" in baseball, etc make though
Economics of Running wrote:
What I'm asking is how much a year to you think Hall makes a year?
Is this a trick question? Everyone knows that Ryan Hall doesn't run for money.
Nope. This is the way it is. Americans on the whole prefer football, basketball and baseball or...shudder...NASCAR.
If an American ran a new WB in Chicago or NYC, they would pocket a few hundred thousand dollars when you tote up their appearance fee, winning and time bonunses.
Why does marathoning have so much money whereas track does not?
Should Mary Wittenberg or Carey Pinkowski be running the USATF?
The marathons can afford to put a lot of money into there elite field because they have 50,000 people running thier race. 50,000 people x $100 entry fee = $5,000,000. thats only from the entry fees not to mention probably a pretty good sponsor in ING. Track meets do not have this.
Morceli, can you send me your current e-mail?
OK... back to how much Hall does / doesn't make. When endurance athletes become "heroes" that capture the imagination of the public, then they'll get paid. It's not bad to hope for and to try to foster, but at the same time, I'm not sure I'd hold my breath.
I can relate to those who feel there is something seriously wrong when the AVERAGE MLBaseball player rakes in $2.6mil/yr, but the free-market dictates that things are what they are, so you can't say it's not fair. Everyone knows this going in, so you have some like Hall and some that go into other professions. EVERYONE makes career choices based on essentially the same things. Needless to say, if running did pay like the NFL/NBA/MLB, then we might not have times a TON faster (maybe a little, though), but we absolutely would have a LOT more depth.
it's ludicrous to say that a stanford grad is going into business and making only $40k/year. in new york, the average salary in the investment banking trade is $8k/week, not including end of year bonuses but including all workers (secretaries, guards, etc.).
not a stanford grad wrote:
it's ludicrous to say that a stanford grad is going into business and making only $40k/year. in new york, the average salary in the investment banking trade is $8k/week, not including end of year bonuses but including all workers (secretaries, guards, etc.).
This is $416,000/year plus bonus. Not for a kid a year or two out of undergrad. Maybe for a top flight MBA school (which Stanford qualifies) and you mom/dad is big hitter (i.e., CEO fortune 500). Then maybe by 28 to 30 this is possible, provided your mom/dad pay your salary by tossing them some major business.
Think Chelsea, she's four years out of Stanford (26 years old) and just took a job at Avenue Capital Group as an analyst. She is reported to be making 100k to 150k plus bonus. WAY WAY less than you suggest.
Also, what is Chelsea's qualification? Could it be her dad was President and her mom might be? The founders of Avenue. Lasry and Gardener are HUGE contributors to the democratic party. You think this is coincidence?
At least we aint swimmers or wrestlers. Runners are rich dudes compared to alot of sports. The money is about right in running for how much money it generates.
did anyone else see that.......did Ryan Hall just post on here?
not a stanford grad wrote:
it's ludicrous to say that a stanford grad is going into business and making only $40k/year. in new york, the average salary in the investment banking trade is $8k/week, not including end of year bonuses but including all workers (secretaries, guards, etc.).
the key word here being "average." secretaries, guards, etc. do not make that much money, even in new york city.
Who cares how much he makes a year. Isn't that his own business?
From the Princeton Review:
# of people in profession: 40,000
Average hours per week: 70
Average starting salary: $134,000
Average salary after 5 years: $300,000
Average salary after 10 to 15 years: $1,000,000