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Summary. McD will not reach his potential because of Liberty. Liberty will impede his progress. Part of him not being ready for the big show has to do with his school choice.
ttc-
Summary. McD will not reach his potential because of Liberty. Liberty will impede his progress. Part of him not being ready for the big show has to do with his school choice.
There are more than a few guys who went to Standford or CU who did not reach the potential they had as percieved by letsrun idiots.
Josh and his brother have always done things a little differently. They were home schooled in high school and sought out competition in college and open races. A place like Liberty might just be the best place for him. He's able to do his own thing at the front of the pack without turning every workout into a race. He might get lost in the shuffle at the place like Wisconsin or Colorado. There's so much talent on those teams, but at Liberty, he's it.
To have three losses as a junior in your college cross country career is outstanding. Josh is getting the job done. You or I might not have chosen Liberty as our college, but Josh did. He seems happy there, and he's running quite well.
Perhaps he went in hoping to win and duked it out for while, until he realized that he was pushing harder than he should be with an even tougher race a week down the road. So, while he was still going for the win for most of the race, maybe he decided to cut his losses and not totally trash himself to hang with Korir.
NYCer wrote:
There are more than a few guys who went to Standford or CU who did not reach the potential they had as percieved by letsrun idiots.
speaking of idiots...
"Standford"
"percieved"
If you all were at the race and saw him run, it was clearly a hamstring. That was a common sight with tightness: runners hobbling on calves or stretching groins or messaging hamstrings. This was a cold, windy day for the southern teams. There was no comment from the team and definitely showed concerns on their face. It does appear the "training through for finals" concept would have shown a more relaxed, easy going, and smiles on the team. That was not the case. This could be an easy recovery and run fine at Nationals. You simply shut it down and save it for another day. Why lose your season at Regionals?!
Nice times for girls wrote:
What I was saying about banojo's moronic comments is that they are on the right track---right track meaning, McD goes to a terrible school for a runner of his status. Certainly Eastern Kentucky would be no real improvement---although they have had their share of studs. Transferring from Liberty to Eastern Kentucky would be like transferring from the 4th level of hell to Darwin's waiting room----he should have gone to Stanford, Wisco, Colorado, Arkansas, Iona, Providence---somewhere that has tradition, funding, a healthy social-emotional environment, appropriate coaching, etc.
Do you disagree with this?
McD is one of the best U.S. runners in awhile---he isn't in the right place. That said, if he wants the pseudo-religious environment, then he is probably missing a necessary psychological component for success.
I am not religion bashing here---I believe that spirituality, God, and religion can be a very healthy and necessary part of one's life. Liberty is something entirely different. Disagree---do a little research. Liberty makes Oral Roberts look like the essence of reason.
Yeah, I remember that one guy, what was his name Jim Ryun or something? He was really talented, but he was a conservative Christian so he never really amounted to much because he didn't have the right psychological state to do well. If only he would have been more like you then maybe he would've been good.
Greg Jimmerson is a new assistant at Liberty. The credentials brought are runner up at Foot Locker, 4th NCAA XC while leading Stanford to the title, and World XC Team Bronze Medalist. There could be a different philosophy.
yeah it seems like a lot of people are overlooking the fact that jacob korir is just a really good runner. sure, mcdougal might've been hurting a bit on saturday, but korir has been close on his heels all season. maybe korir is just starting to peak and we are seeing what he is truly capable of. if i were hoping to contend for the individual title next monday i would deffinately be looking out for korir.
128
Drew Ponder
Liberty
33:29.00
irun wrote:
yeah it seems like a lot of people are overlooking the fact that jacob korir is just a really good runner. sure, mcdougal might've been hurting a bit on saturday, but korir has been close on his heels all season. maybe korir is just starting to peak and we are seeing what he is truly capable of. if i were hoping to contend for the individual title next monday i would deffinately be looking out for korir.
MAYBE YOU SHOULD GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS IDIOT.
....Actually you could be right. I just felt this thread was lacking the quota'd hostility most Letsrun threads have.
Not knowing much about McDougal, but a lot of people on here treat him as an untouchable machine when it comes to running. Seriously, has he ever won a cross or track NCAA title? Did he get beat in hs at Foot Locker?
He sounds like a very good runner(top 5 at nat cross last year)but it certainly doesnt seem like a big surprise that someone could beat him.
he shouldnt have gone to liberty, that place would make anyone run bad
Korir has been running well for over a year now. Quietly winning smaller races and breaking school records at EKU. He was second at regions last fall, running well but beaten easily by McDougal. Then I think he was about 20th at NCAA's. He also ran 7:58 for 3k indoors, narrowly missing going to indoor nats, then ran an early season 13:40 5k before getting injured.
He placed well at some of the big XC meets this fall but has been just outside the radar as far as being talked about as a NCAA contender.
He is now one of the favorites to win it all. Solinsky, Fagan, Korir and Rupp are the four I believe.
Look how relaxed Korir looks here
http://trackandfieldphoto.com/DisplayNextJpg.php?061111_1730_3558_RLM
It was even at the 5 mile and then Korir destroyed McDougal. You have to give him credit for a solid race. It would need to be another performance for Korir to be in the Top 10. (19th 05') Then for McDougal he has to be healthy to place again in the Top 5 or even Top 10.
Nice times for girls wrote:
McD is one of the best U.S. runners in awhile---he isn't in the right place. That said, if he wants the pseudo-religious environment, then he is probably missing a necessary psychological component for success.
I am not religion bashing here---I believe that spirituality, God, and religion can be a very healthy and necessary part of one's life. Liberty is something entirely different. Disagree---do a little research. Liberty makes Oral Roberts look like the essence of reason.
It appears your biases have thrown you into making some aggressive, seemingly-popular anti-religious comments to the easy approval of the apathetic American religious culture. Thus, when persons of intelligence have replied back with comments, you've stepped down from your unwarranted mudslinging and tried to surmount some kind of "Christianity (which is now a cult??) + running= dismal failure (off of one performance...)." You are both the epitome of disillusioned post-modern Americans who argue for their liberal freedoms, but reject the values and choices of another, and of the "bandwagon-idiot" letsrun posters who ever-so-quickly joins discussion to rail one of America's best young talents because of a "poor race." Honestly, I don't care if Josh sandbagged this race Badger style or just didn't have the gas to beat some equally talented runner. What I'd love to see hear is balanced, focused discussions without the anti-religious crap thrown in. Maybe you have inside experience with a Christian university, but I'm guessing not. To enlighten you, Liberty and a majority of larger Christian universities are far from the picture you've painted. The religious aspect requires certain religion-based classes to be taken and weekly/quarterly activities to be attended. Religion is not at all required, let alone shoved down a student's throat. It doesn't have an affect on Josh's training or overall lifestyle any more than numerous other lifestyle choices undertaken by American's today. Rather I would argue that his choices to commit to something outside of academia or leisure positively influences him to be committed, thoughtful, and responsible with his life and his training. Maybe Liberty is more outspoken and challenging to the culture than Oral Roberts is, but it assuredly does not stand as a detriment, in any way, to running success for its student athletes; Josh McDougal in the least.
ok, I will like to support that liberty is terrible for running, science, politics and everything else that involves thinking clearly.
I spent a week there this summer for virginia Boy's state, and whoever on this thread said the food there is good must thinks that olive garden is the best restaurant in the country. That food gave me the worst case of the shits i have ever had. Anyone that thinks liberty is good for anything other then being a really ugly campus is probably just as dumb and racist as the idiot that founded Liberty. Granted, they do have a hockey rink and a really nice indoor track, but that is it.
The LIBERTY FLAMES? come on.
tempoing the conference AND regional meet is way too much. just the conference meet. you need some time to rest up for nationals. so don't run regionals.
Rohatinsky should be put ahead of Rupp.
Anyway, it's unfair how you guys are denouncing McDougal's choice to go to Liberty based only on the fact that he got 2nd at his regional meet. Nobody was saying shit about Liberty and McDougal before when he was undefeated. The guy's running really well at Liberty and I don't think he would be any better at any other University.
I wholly support McD's right to do whatever he wants. My point is that his choice comes with a cost to his running. Truthfully, we can't know the effects of the Liberty environment on McD's running---I am saying that I think it is bad.
Contrary to your assessment of my motivation, I have no such post-modern American desires for McDougal to give up his beliefs. My desires are much more specific---I want to see him run as fast as possible, so that I can (selfishly) enjoy watching an American boy do well. I happen to find that enjoyable. I am simply saying that for a variety of reasons---extreme pseudo-religiosity being one of them---McDougal will be limited in his running.
A university is a great place for young people's beliefs to grow, change, blossom. In fact, this is a part of a higher education---opening up possible ways of thinking, believing, acting. Liberty happens to do the opposite---it is contrary to education---it closes down options, ceases thinking about critical matters (of the soul and else-wise). Runners who have soulful growth often experience running breakthroughs too. The environment at Liberty is contrary to growth. For a variety of academic reasons, I know and understand Liberty.
Listen...there are a bunch of problems with Liberty for great athletes, beyond the religious practices.
The previous poster seems to disagree mostly that Liberty is extreme. I beg to differ, but remove religion from the conversation and I still say that it is the wrong place for somebody of McD's rank.
Incidentally, I hope he gets second place at NCAAs to Chris Solinsky.