Boston....who cares?!?

old tymer wrote:

stupid letsrunners wrote:

Are you kidding? I'd take an actual *race* over a five-minute victory romp on a pancake-flat course any day. Last year Boston had *races* in both men's and women's. London did not. Stay on topic next time.

My, my, you sound quite a bit like BUM. So, let me get this straight: all you care about in running is that the best runners are EQUAL in talent. I presume that this is what "racing" really boils down to. You obviously don't care what the LEVEL of that talent is--good, bad, or indifferent, you're in hog heaven as long as there's 2 or more neck and neck at the finish, leaning for the tape. The time, after all, is irrelevant, right? Sorry to say, that I've seen many many many "close" and "competitive" races that simply weren't exciting or memorable.

Sorry dude, we do care about leve of talent - we just don't care what times the best in the world put out. Races are sometimes tactical, sometimes balls out sufferfests. Each can be interesting. Final times don't really matter.

Sorry but the 3rd, 5th, and 7th place runners- none of those Americans are part of the Hanson's group.

Nobby Nomates wrote:

Doesn't that "fact" negate the idea that Boston is held to be the Holy Grail of marathoning by the Japanese? Atfer all, if they hold Boston in such high regard, surely they would race there, not in Japan.

Ummm, they DID race in Boston.

Perhaps she was. Did I say she wasn't? I'm just pointing out the possibility that she may not be entirely sincere, nothing else. It's a valid response to somebody holding her up as the spokesperson for an entire nation. Since it's taken Tosa 6 races to get there, it surely wasn't high on her "to do" list.

I provided a quote from Tosa via Saturday's newspaper. It was YOU who first referred to her as the "spokesperson for an entire nation." Hyperbole, anyone?

As for taking 6 races to get there, I suppose you are talking about this being her first Boston. Correct! Thus, it was higher on her "to do" list this year than London. You would have to ask her why she waited until now, but I do know that she took last year off to get married. And far be it from me to put words in someone else's mouth, but are suggesting that all of the world's great marathoners chose to run London before venturing on another race course? Of course not.

I can't believe the logic being thrown around here. Unfortunately for a few of you, "best" is a subjective superlative, so all we're arguing here is opinion.

The following are objective statements and immune to argument.

FASTEST marathon? London (or Chicago)

OLDEST marathon? Boston

Now if we're debating the "best" marathon, I find it hilarious that some posters point to the big names and fast times at London over the last 4-5 years [how far back does London go anyway - were there any meaningful "Londons" 10-20 years ago?]. As many of you have noted, people like Geb and Tergat will go to London over Boston because of 1) the purse and 2) a greater chance of setting a WR on the flat course. Unfortunately, the current elites pass on truly testing themselves at Boston, as they would have to run - as Pre would put it - a "pure guts race". Ask Salazar how he felt about his running career after his "duel in the sun" with Beardsley.

Also if the Dubuque (or East Bum, or wherever) 10K Turkey Trot suddenly announced a $1 million award for first place and all the A-list Africans flew over to compete, does that make the Dubuque 10K Turkey Trot the "best" 10K in the world? Of course not. History has to be considered.

History is what makes Hayward Field special. And Madison Square Garden. So to criticize Boston for "resting" on its history is ludicrous. Boston kept alive the marathon-distance competition for decades, keeping it in the public consciousness.

Ugh, I could go on for pages, but it's silly I have to argue this. How about this: the Boston Marathon is to the World Series as the London Marathon is to the World Baseball Classic. Both have big names; one has history.

.///.. wrote:

Sorry but the 3rd, 5th, and 7th place runners- none of those Americans are part of the Hanson's group.

What planet are you on? It was not 3rd, 5th and 7th...to begin with... We got 3, 4 and 5th and 7th and 10th...

OK, now who is Brian Sell? Who does he run for??? HANSON... (He got 4th).

The point is that Hanson-Brooks have taken non elite college guys and made them elite post-collegate... It (team training works). I know when I was in college is when I made my greatest strides...

The group training "camps" is what made the Kenyans... We have the money in the US... If they can do it so can we...

Ummm, they DID race in Boston.

Ummm, what, all of them? Every single able bodied Japanese runner ran Boson yesterday? Weren't you the one telling me that "everyone knows" that Japanese runnners don't race abroad very often? If Boston is held in such high regard in Japan, why don't more Japanese athletes race it? There are more Japanese runners in London than there were in Boston yesterday , they must be fit - if Boston is so important to them, why are they running London? Why are they wasting their foreign racing opportunity, which you claim doesn't come very often, on a race which, you claim, they don't care about?

BTW Tosa ran London in '02, so obviously that race is waaay higher on her career "to do" list.

So to criticize Boston for "resting" on its history is ludicrous.

No it isn't. Boston used to get the best athletes year after year, but they refused to change with the times in the professional era and now they are paying for it.

And don't you think you'd better find out about the history of the London Marathon before spouting off about who has it and who doesn't?

Boston kept alive the marathon-distance competition for decades, keeping it in the public consciousness.

Really - which decades were those?

Well, I see you haven't give up on the hyperbole.

You answered your own question regarding "every single able bodied Japanese runner" by pointing out that some of them (how many?) are in London. Again, you answered your own question about why more Japanese don't race Boston when you correctly pointed out that they do not race abroad often.

I provided information regarding Tosa's choice to run Boston. As to why some Japanese are running London instead of Boston, you will have to ask them that question.

And again I would ask you to refrain from your unfortunate habit of putting words into someone else's mouth. Nowhere did I claim that London was a race "they don't care about."

What is also obvious is that this year her priorities were different. Perhaps she will return to London next year.

You started the hyperbole. You stop, I stop.

you are an idiot

Braavo Furgi wrote:

.///.. wrote:

Sorry but the 3rd, 5th, and 7th place runners- none of those Americans are part of the Hanson's group.

What planet are you on? It was not 3rd, 5th and 7th...to begin with... We got 3, 4 and 5th and 7th and 10th...

OK, now who is Brian Sell? Who does he run for??? HANSON... (He got 4th).

The point is that Hanson-Brooks have taken non elite college guys and made them elite post-collegate... It (team training works). I know when I was in college is when I made my greatest strides...

The group training "camps" is what made the Kenyans... We have the money in the US... If they can do it so can we...

Nobby Nomates wrote:

BTW Tosa ran London in '02, so obviously that race is waaay higher on her career "to do" list.

Bad example. They could throw Tergat, et al, right back at ya.

Tergat is Japanese?

Nobby Nomates wrote:

You started the hyperbole. You stop, I stop.

I am confident that you are wrong about my use of hyperbole, but I will give you a chance to prove otherwise. Quote one of my posts on this thread where I originated anything resembling hyperbole. I don't think you can do it.

Also, I'm sure you know Tergat is not Japanese. I believe the poster was reminding you that for every runner like Teso who ran London and then Boston, there is another quality runner who ran Boston before London.

Only a nubby numbnuts operates on stereotypes.

Lets see:

It is their runners who consider Boston to be "the race" when talking about marathons.

Are you speaking for every Japanese runner?

Sorry to disappoint you, but the media are already all over this thing, as usual.

If by media you mean Boston media then no hyperbole, but I didn't see any evidence of the national media being "all over this thing", so definite hyperbole there.

I believe the poster was reminding you that for every runner like Teso who ran London and then Boston, there is another quality runner who ran Boston before London.

If that was the intention, would it not have been better to pick a runner who actually ran Boston before London? Although, as I wasn't disputing the point for every runner, just for your contention about Tosa, I don't really see the relevance

I agree, shouldn't you be directing your advice at the people who do operate on stereotypes.

marunner wrote:

Also if the Dubuque (or East Bum, or wherever) 10K Turkey Trot suddenly announced a $1 million award for first place and all the A-list Africans flew over to compete, does that make the Dubuque 10K Turkey Trot the "best" 10K in the world? Of course not. History has to be considered.

If they ran that sucker up the bluffs of Dubuque it would be a sufferfest. Those are some steep hills.

He'll never give you an example. He'll also never repeat his pseudo-statisitical breakdown for the women's races. This an is a fanatic.

I was not speaking for anyone. You will recall that I took that description from a newspaper article. Once again, the actual wording was: "As far as her homeland is concerned, Boston is The Race and has been for more than half a century." You may accuse that author of hyperbole, but it wasn't me who originated the phrase.

I mentioned the newspapers (yes, the ones local to Boston), the potential for an upcoming cover of a running magazine (almost a certainty for "New England Runner"), and the coverage by three television entities. All true. I never mentioned 'national' or 'international' media.

It was someone else who mentioned Tergat, not me. You'll have to pick that bone with that person.

So, you're offically 0 for 3 on the hyperbole proof. Care to try again?