The Scot wrote:
This guy just showed up as new WL a day after Kinyamal's 1.43 with a time set in Nairobi. No times from 2020 but ran 1:49 in 2019.
https://www.worldathletics.org/athletes/kenya/elias-ngeny-14849580Progression:
2021 1:43.84 Nyayo National Stadium, Nairobi (KEN) 29 MAY 2021
2019 1:49.23 Nyayo National Stadium, Nairobi (KEN) 21 AUG 2019
2018 1:49.44 Nairobi (KEN) 21 JUN 2018
What's his bench press though?
give Ngeny 2.0 back story wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
It's obvious his previous pr was when he was competing in the wheelchair events. The miracles of modern pharmaceuticals - sorry, medicine.
You do not have any evidence. Why assume drugs? I don't know your age, but Seb Coe went from 1:48ish to 1:44.xx in a short time period if I recall. Eight-hundred metres is difficult for which to train. Does an 800m athlete train like a 400m athlete plus (30 to 40) road miles a week? Does an 800m athlete train like a 1500m man plus one or two extra speed sessions per week? We are going to see numerous athletes racing 1:42.51 to 1:43.99 every year. Athletes racing sub-1:41.5 will continue to be rare. On the women side we will see many women racing 1:56 to 1:58 but sub-1:55 will continue to be rare on the women side. Have you noticed on World Athletics, they do not show Seb Coe's complete 800m progression? If it were shown Coe's 1974 to 1976 800m results, would say Coe was using? Some athletes in their late teens & early twenties commit to vigorous training and results show.
Coe never improved nearly 6 seconds on his previous pr in the 800 - and certainly not in his mid-twenties, as Ngeny is. It is an off the planet performance leap at the professional level. Ngeny is 24. An improvement of that scale at that age speaks only of one thing - all too common in Kenyan running today.
Armstronglivs wrote:
Coe never improved nearly 6 seconds on his previous pr in the 800 - and certainly not in his mid-twenties, as Ngeny is. It is an off the planet performance leap at the professional level. Ngeny is 24. An improvement of that scale at that age speaks only of one thing - all too common in Kenyan running today.
Ngeny also never has improved by 6 seconds.
Has he tested positive? No? Than shut up.
6336 wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
Coe never improved nearly 6 seconds on his previous pr in the 800 - and certainly not in his mid-twenties, as Ngeny is. It is an off the planet performance leap at the professional level. Ngeny is 24. An improvement of that scale at that age speaks only of one thing - all too common in Kenyan running today.
Ngeny also never has improved by 6 seconds.
Has he tested positive? No? Than shut up.
+1
Total ignorance as usual from the agitator.
Armstronglivs and Coevett, I think you don't have historical memory, or, more simple, don't know the value of performances.
The PB of Ngeny puts him in position 113 in the World. His time is the performance number 502 in the history of athletics.
You consider only what happened in the last 4-5 years, but in thye past Athletics produced a lot of results, almost normal, that now people consider "exceptional".
In 1998 (first year I went Kenya) I saw the National Championships. A totally unknown athlete was number 3 in 800m with 1'45"52, and I liked his way of running. I went to talk with him, and discovered that he was a sergent of Army, who had the role to select young athletes for the Team of Defense (at that time the only Military Club in Kenya). So, he sometimes went running with very young athletes, many of them not really strong. He knew was fast, and his brigade asked him to run during the Army Championships, because at the end there was a classification for Brigades. He won running in 1'49"2 the first race of his career, the second race were the National Championsips. He didn't know his exact year of birth : his birth certificate had the date of 01.01.1973, but of sure he was 4-5 years older, about 30 years old.
I spoke with Gianni Demadonna, who agreed to manage him. After 6 weeks of training with me, he went for his first race in Europe (3rd race of his career), in Stuttgart (19th July). Japhet Kimutai was the winner in 1'42"76, and Kennedy Kimwetich was 2nd in 1'43"03 in the 3rd competition of his career when was already almost 30 years old.
You really don't know what the talent is, and suppose of doping for every "normal" performance if we look at the athletic history.
I want to write here the times for the performance n. 100-200-300-500-1000 in all the events of middle and long distances :
800m : 1'42"97 (100) - 1'43"32 (200) - 1'43"56 (300) - 1'43"84 (500) - 1'44"30 (1000)
1500m : 3'29"95 (100) - 3'30"76 (200) - 3'31"20 (300) - 3'31"95 (500) - 3'33"14 (1000)
5000m : 12'54"21 (100) - 12'57"23 (200) - 12'59"09 (300) - 13'01"64 (500) - 13'06"71 (1000)
10000m : 26'56"46 (100) - 27'07"29 (200) - 27'13"81 (300) - 27'22"89 (500) - 27'36"76 (1000)
HM : 59'16" (100) - 59'32" (200) - 59'45" (300) - 1:00'03" (500) - 1:00'35" (1000)
Mar : 2:04'54" (100) - 2:05'42" (200) - 2:06'13" (300) - 2:06'47" (500) - 2:07'48" (1000)
Steeple : 8'02"69 (100) - 8'05"43 (200) - 8'06"96 (300) - 8'09"23 (500) - 8'12"74 (1000)
Do you understand because it's ridiculous to speak of doping for NORMAL performances ?
And do you understand because I laugh when the pseudo-scientists researchers call "Elite" the subject of their researches (who are not in top 20,000 performances in the World) ?
Without knowing the history of the past, it's not possible to have ideas about the present, and without knowing what is possible to achieve with REAL talent it's not possible to have ideas about the future.
Thank you, Renato.
wild east africa wrote:
zcxvzxcv wrote:
Russia was banned for doping all of its athletes year after year after year systematically and even breaking into the 2014 Winter Olympics testing lab and switching the samples. Totally deserved.
BS of the highest order. Its just tin foil hat conspiracy. The Russia affair is a politically motivated witch hunt and its disgusting. And the reason why the 2016 Olympics did not matter and why the 2021 may not matter either if it stays this way.
Russia doped all its athletes? How dumb. There's as many individual training groups in Russia as there are in the US. Russia also has a more effective anti-doping organization in RUSADA.
The Russians found no evidence of some James Bond 007 secret spy doping program.
As it is, the leadership there states:
"Russia has never had and will never have a state-backed doping program. There is no place for doping in sports. Yes, we've found ourselves in a situation where they've applied unprecedented measures on our athletes. The fact that our team lacks so many members is regretful. It's hard to expect any result from our athletes when there are such changes. Right now we a following the motto 'It's not the winning but the taking part that counts,'" Smirnov said.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOKLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO
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LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLRUSSIANLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO
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6336 wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
Coe never improved nearly 6 seconds on his previous pr in the 800 - and certainly not in his mid-twenties, as Ngeny is. It is an off the planet performance leap at the professional level. Ngeny is 24. An improvement of that scale at that age speaks only of one thing - all too common in Kenyan running today.
Ngeny also never has improved by 6 seconds.
.
Yes he has doping apologist.
His time makes him the 12th fastest Kenyan of the last five years.
Four of the other fourteen Kenyans on the top 15 list are currently suspended for anti-doping offences (Bett, Kiprop, Kipketer, Manangoi).
I remember a guy who went from 3:39 to 3:30 in a single year in the 1500. His name was Rashid Ramzi.
Mr T..... wrote:
6336 wrote:
Ngeny also never has improved by 6 seconds.
.
Yes he has doping apologist.
No he has, you racist imbecile doping apologist:
JRinaldi wrote:
This is the list of his races this season - still a big jump from 1:46.
1:47.68A PB 4rB Nairobi 6 Feb
1:48.2hA 1h6 Nairobi 12 Mar
1:46.57A PB 1s2 Nairobi 12 Mar
1:48.91A 2h4 Nairobi 27 May
1:47.66A 2s2 Nairobi 28 May
1:43.84A WL PB (1) 1 Nairobi 29 May
What is wrong with you? He improved by 6 seconds in one year after spending two years as a 1:49 runner. He's 24. That's even older than Ramzi when he made his obviously doped improvement, as well as a relatively bigger improvement than Ramzi's (6 seconds for 800m is bigger even than 9 seconds for 1500m). Earlier in this thread you slandered Cruz for improving by 2.3 seconds at age 20.
How can you not be suspicious of this guy after all the doping busts in Kenya???
Hopefully the three test requirement of Kenyans before Tokyo will mean he either doesn't make the team or he gets busted.
Mr T..... wrote:
Earlier in this thread you slandered Cruz for improving by 2.3 seconds at age 20.
No point having an honest discussion with a dishonest man.
This is what I wrote. Not my problem if you can't read.
sytms wrote:
Coevett wrote:
Why are you trying to slander Cruz? Simply because he's of West African descent? When are you going to remove the cancer of racism from Kenyan society?
I don't think he is trying to slander Cruz. He seems to be pointing out your hypocrisy.
If you ever learn how to read, then read Renato's post and educate yourself.
Mr T..... wrote:
Hopefully the three test requirement of Kenyans before Tokyo will mean he either doesn't make the team or he gets busted.
Are you a complete idiot?
Don't bother with the answer.
You are hoping that an athlete, against whom there is absolutely nothing, doesn't make the team or gets busted.
You are pathetic.
Mr T..... wrote:
6336 wrote:
Ngeny also never has improved by 6 seconds.
.
Yes he has doping apologist.
No Coevett, he hasn't. From his 2019 PB he has improved by 5 seconds in 2 years (no 800m races reported for him in corona season 2020). Almost 6 seconds improvement from his previous PB is just plain wrong, as usual from you,
And when you write you hope that he gets busted before Tokyo (a runner you practically don't know anything besides a few results and - most important - his skin colour and nationality), there's nothing more which we have to know about you, disgrace of the human race.
You are the worst of all those letsrun haters and should be ashamed of yourself.
And - as Impala correctly realised - I had no intention to slander Cruz. Another example of your terrible reading comprehension.
6336 wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
Coe never improved nearly 6 seconds on his previous pr in the 800 - and certainly not in his mid-twenties, as Ngeny is. It is an off the planet performance leap at the professional level. Ngeny is 24. An improvement of that scale at that age speaks only of one thing - all too common in Kenyan running today.
Ngeny also never has improved by 6 seconds.
Has he tested positive? No? Than shut up.
"Nearly 6 seconds". So you can't read. But 5xsecs is not suspicious. Most dopers never test positive.
1.43x from 1.49x. Ngeny is a time-traveler. He has come from being world beating in 1948 to world beating in 2021 - and in only 2 years. Science fiction. This occurred over the period when testing was reduced because of Covid (and presto - new world marks are being set) and from a country where runners dope for breakfast. The naivity and denial on these boards is comical.
Armstronglivs wrote:
6336 wrote:
Ngeny also never has improved by 6 seconds.
Has he tested positive? No? Than shut up.
"Nearly 6 seconds". So you can't read. But 5xsecs is not suspicious. Most dopers never test positive.
5.39 is not "nearly" 6 seconds. And it was not from his previous PB but from his PB two years ago while in 2020 he has not raced over 800m. Shut up you evenly matched disgrace like coevett. Shame on both of you for all the hate and lies which you constantly spread over this board
6336 wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
"Nearly 6 seconds". So you can't read. But 5xsecs is not suspicious. Most dopers never test positive.
5.39 is not "nearly" 6 seconds. And it was not from his previous PB but from his PB two years ago while in 2020 he has not raced over 800m. Shut up you evenly matched disgrace like coevett. Shame on both of you for all the hate and lies which you constantly spread over this board
100ths of a second usually matter when that is the margin between winning and losing. But nearly 6 seconds - from 1.49x to 1.43x. With that margin wtf
do tenths and hundredths matter? (You do understand what the word "nearly"means, don't you?) Ngeny has gone from being world-class in 1948 to world-class over 70 years later - in 2 years. This, while there was less testing - and he's from a country rife with doping. You are a complete idiot.
Renato Canova wrote:
Armstronglivs and Coevett, I think you don't have historical memory, or, more simple, don't know the value of performances.
The PB of Ngeny puts him in position 113 in the World. His time is the performance number 502 in the history of athletics.
You consider only what happened in the last 4-5 years, but in thye past Athletics produced a lot of results, almost normal, that now people consider "exceptional".
In 1998 (first year I went Kenya) I saw the National Championships. A totally unknown athlete was number 3 in 800m with 1'45"52, and I liked his way of running. I went to talk with him, and discovered that he was a sergent of Army, who had the role to select young athletes for the Team of Defense (at that time the only Military Club in Kenya). So, he sometimes went running with very young athletes, many of them not really strong. He knew was fast, and his brigade asked him to run during the Army Championships, because at the end there was a classification for Brigades. He won running in 1'49"2 the first race of his career, the second race were the National Championsips. He didn't know his exact year of birth : his birth certificate had the date of 01.01.1973, but of sure he was 4-5 years older, about 30 years old.
I spoke with Gianni Demadonna, who agreed to manage him. After 6 weeks of training with me, he went for his first race in Europe (3rd race of his career), in Stuttgart (19th July). Japhet Kimutai was the winner in 1'42"76, and Kennedy Kimwetich was 2nd in 1'43"03 in the 3rd competition of his career when was already almost 30 years old.
You really don't know what the talent is, and suppose of doping for every "normal" performance if we look at the athletic history.
I want to write here the times for the performance n. 100-200-300-500-1000 in all the events of middle and long distances :
800m : 1'42"97 (100) - 1'43"32 (200) - 1'43"56 (300) - 1'43"84 (500) - 1'44"30 (1000)
1500m : 3'29"95 (100) - 3'30"76 (200) - 3'31"20 (300) - 3'31"95 (500) - 3'33"14 (1000)
5000m : 12'54"21 (100) - 12'57"23 (200) - 12'59"09 (300) - 13'01"64 (500) - 13'06"71 (1000)
10000m : 26'56"46 (100) - 27'07"29 (200) - 27'13"81 (300) - 27'22"89 (500) - 27'36"76 (1000)
HM : 59'16" (100) - 59'32" (200) - 59'45" (300) - 1:00'03" (500) - 1:00'35" (1000)
Mar : 2:04'54" (100) - 2:05'42" (200) - 2:06'13" (300) - 2:06'47" (500) - 2:07'48" (1000)
Steeple : 8'02"69 (100) - 8'05"43 (200) - 8'06"96 (300) - 8'09"23 (500) - 8'12"74 (1000)
Do you understand because it's ridiculous to speak of doping for NORMAL performances ?
And do you understand because I laugh when the pseudo-scientists researchers call "Elite" the subject of their researches (who are not in top 20,000 performances in the World) ?
Without knowing the history of the past, it's not possible to have ideas about the present, and without knowing what is possible to achieve with REAL talent it's not possible to have ideas about the future.
Renato, it is precisely because I have lived long enough to have a sense of what history can tell us that I recognize the implausible when I see it. Your arguments only confirm that you will never see the possibility of doping in any runner's performances and particularly with extreme improvements. To you everything can be explained away. Ngeny is no rapidly improving teenager; he is a 24 year old, by which age many champions in the past had peaked. At a time when there has been greatly reduced testing he has gone from being a 1948-level runner to world-class in 2021. That is implausible - without doping being seriously considered.