Too lazy
Too lazy
Jon Orange wrote:
are they all elites? wrote:Are your sure?
84.3 "Physiologist in training," 15:12/30:55 runner
82.7 Gary Tuttle, US runner
82.0 Kip Keino, Olympic 1500 champion
81.1 Craig Virgin, twice World cross country champ
81.0 Jim Ryun, US miler WR holder
80.1 Steve Scott, US miler 3:47
79.4 "Runningart2004," 15:43 5k runner
This.
Not this. My point was that all the elite guys have high VO2max numbers compared to normal healthy males who fall in the 35-40 range. I'm not contesting the fact that non-elites like Alan can have high VO2maxes. It's like with cars. All race cars have big engines but a big engine isn't enough to make a car a race car, the car must also be light, have good handling, aerodynamics, whatever.
Jon Orange wrote:
Too lazy
So you harp on about excuses and yet you have the lamest one in the book.
That'll prove your theory brilliantly..
To put it another way, can you find even a single example of an elite distance runner with a published VO2max under 60? I don't think you'll find one because it takes an engine bigger than that to run at an elite level.
Read the thread title oh obsessive personality disorder internet stalker type loony tunes creepy weirdo multiple name poster.
It's not about me, it's about you.
Jon Orange wrote:
Read the thread title oh obsessive personality disorder internet stalker type loony tunes creepy weirdo multiple name poster.
It's not about me, it's about you.
It's about us, Jon.
Jon Orange wrote:
Too lazy
So you knew you could be elite but chose another path. What was that path?
test2 wrote:
Jon Orange wrote:This.
Not this. My point was that all the elite guys have high VO2max numbers compared to normal healthy males who fall in the 35-40 range. I'm not contesting the fact that non-elites like Alan can have high VO2maxes. It's like with cars. All race cars have big engines but a big engine isn't enough to make a car a race car, the car must also be light, have good handling, aerodynamics, whatever.
You're missing the point. Elite distance runners are guess what? distance runners. They have a naturally higher oxidative capacity in their predominantly slow twitch muscle fibers.
They have very low body fat. They actually have a very wide range of VO2 maxes as a group, from below 70 to above 90.
They have normal size hearts. This is the main determinant of your VO2 max, or more specifically, left ventricular stroke volume multiplied by heart rate, giving cardiac output.
Alan was a young runner with low boby fat and decent fitness combined with a somewhat mesomorphic body for an endurance athlete. That's why he had a high VO2 max.
Yes an average population of couch potatos will have a much much lower figure. That is normal too.
I'm just doing math.
Jon Orange wrote:
The second Daniels graph, in oxygen power which shows 79% VO2 max for a 3 hour race but only 80% for a 2 hour race can be represented with this example:
.
No. That chart is clearly labeled. The X axis is velocity at VO2max. Not VO2max.
Jon Orange wrote:
I don't coach, but there are plenty of people of influence who have the same stance as me here in the UK.
And there is the problem for me.
There are none so pompous and an English coach.
Jon Orange wrote:
Barney Castle wrote:Thank you. Can you identify any of these people of influence please - I am very happy to believe that there are others who agree with you but I dont come across many in my limited sphere of operation.
You're welcome. Sir David John "Dave" Brailsford, CBE former performance director of British Cycling and currently general manager of Team Sky.
Professor Yianis Pitsiladis Professor of Sport and Exercise Science, Bristol University.
Brailsford is a politician / manager.
The other guy works for WADA
Jon Orange wrote:
test2 wrote:Not this. My point was that all the elite guys have high VO2max numbers compared to normal healthy males who fall in the 35-40 range. I'm not contesting the fact that non-elites like Alan can have high VO2maxes. It's like with cars. All race cars have big engines but a big engine isn't enough to make a car a race car, the car must also be light, have good handling, aerodynamics, whatever.
You're missing the point. Elite distance runners are guess what? distance runners. They have a naturally higher oxidative capacity in their predominantly slow twitch muscle fibers.
They have very low body fat. They actually have a very wide range of VO2 maxes as a group, from below 70 to above 90.
They have normal size hearts. This is the main determinant of your VO2 max, or more specifically, left ventricular stroke volume multiplied by heart rate, giving cardiac output.
Alan was a young runner with low boby fat and decent fitness combined with a somewhat mesomorphic body for an endurance athlete. That's why he had a high VO2 max.
Yes an average population of couch potatos will have a much much lower figure. That is normal too.
Who's missing what point? Seems like you just agreed that elite distance runners have big engines (VO2max 70-90).
Looks like Jon's shack of cards is not holding up very well under scrutiny.
Jon Orange wrote:
Pre also had a naturally high VO2 max and Shorter an naturally low VO2 max for a skinny distance runner. These differences are genetic and based on a combination of ankle length, where a shorter ankle develops more force like Shorter and a Longer ankle developes less force and has to be compensated for with a bigger muscle mass and a higher oxygen uptake to feed those muscles.
But both runners needed to improve their personal economy/efficiency to achieve their results.
What was Shorter's abkle length? What was Pre's ankle length?
Who measured them?
"Ankle length" lol
Pre was slightly faster than Shorter over 10k. Was he therefore more efficient than Shorter?
No way Pacho. A barely sub 2:30 marathon pr and suddenly you believe, spew, that you could have been elite if you weren't so lazy???????? You have quite an ego there Jon. I trained in Ann Arbor and Rochester. I broke 2:20, over 10 minutes faster than you, and I don't consider myself elite. You sir are full of hot air and your head is too big for your shoulders. Give it a rest.
Jon Orange wrote:
Too lazy
Jon Orange wrote:
Pre also had a naturally high VO2 max and Shorter an naturally low VO2 max for a skinny distance runner. These differences are genetic and based on a combination of ankle length, where a shorter ankle develops more force like Shorter and a Longer ankle developes less force and has to be compensated for with a bigger muscle mass and a higher oxygen uptake to feed those muscles.
But both runners needed to improve their personal economy/efficiency to achieve their results.
So your ankle length determines VO2 now, and these differences are genetic? I thought you didn't recognize genetics as a determinant of performance?
Laziness is genetic.
Dr. Ernie Gregoire, long-time coach at Mt. San Antonio College and Director of the Mt. SAC Relays for many years, said that some people do use drugs. However there are just a few people that do this and the situation is way overblown.
There are a lot of legal substances that do not do much good, including protein powders. Most people that take that stuff just get fat!
There are people that get accused of doping and all they did was take cold medicine so they could breathe. A few have lost years of competition because of this. It is way over blown. I do not believe everyone who wins is doping.
Why would I, after training my body for 10-15 years, stick something in it that had not been proven to be safe? I would think there are few that would be will to do that for fame.