Official D3 Cross Country 2013 Thread

This is not true at all. No need to spread pointless lies.

Soooo ...

MW-6

SE-2

W-2

NE-6

GL-3

CEN-5

A-4

ME-4

Surprised Central got 5 instead of Mideast, but other than that it seems pretty much expected, right?

carnegie mellon got hosed

Why does Manchester always get in as the last team? They are garbage this year. Maybe they can use this post as fodder to not finish last among the at-large teams. I feel bad for Bowdoin, they deserved to get in, but they dug their own grave by not having 5 finishers at Pre-Nats.

It's not clear that Luther deserves to be in, much less Carleton or Loras. I think you could make as much a case for Wheaton, Stout and Platteville. The committee seemed reluctant to push for more than 6 teams in any region in the first year of no cap.

The committee was much worse on the women's side. UW-Stevens Point and Ohio Wesleyan do not deserve bids. Luther is questionable. Bates gets royally screwed, and Colby deserved to get in as well. I'm sure the committee didn't want to put Colby in ahead of Hamilton because Hamilton beat Colby at NESCAC, but that was without McClure for Colby, who only raced at Regionals and was their #2 runner. Had she raced at NESCACs then it's not a contest.

How can you justify leaving Bates women home when they destroyed Stevens Point and St. Olaf head-to-head? This is one of the few inter-regional competitions the committee can use--this should be the easy decision!

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Roy Griak Cross Invitational - Women's Maroon (Divison III)

Les Bolstad Golf Course, University of Minnesota

September 28, 2013

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1. 63 Wartburg College (23:27.2 117:15.9 1:01.6)

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1 4 2032 Alana Enabnit JR 22:54.7 5 21 2036 Serena Goetzl JR 23:56.3

2 5 2031 Sammi Bruett SR 22:55.6 6 ( 44) 2044 Lauren Mapes SR 24:25.3

3 13 2055 Haddie Vawter SR 23:35.4 7 ( 54) 2048 Elli Parker JR 24:31.6

4 20 2051 Erin Sawyers JR 23:53.9

2. 103 Bates College (23:51.6 119:18.0 1:02.3)

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1 9 1595 Hannah Zeltner SO 23:17.2 5 34 1594 Isabelle Unger SO 24:19.5

2 15 1592 Kallie Nixon SR 23:39.2 6 ( 37) 1588 Sarah Fusco JR 24:21.4

3 22 1591 Gabrielle Naranja SR 24:00.8 7 ( 39) 1584 Mira Carey-Hatch SR 24:22.9

4 23 1590 Elena Jay JR 24:01.3

3. 118 Carleton (23:51.4 119:16.9 1:25.7)

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1 6 1624 Colette Celichowski JR 22:56.1 5 38 1638 Kazia Mermel FR 24:21.8

2 16 1646 Ruth Steinke SO 23:39.2 6 ( 41) 1650 Ahna Weeks JR 24:23.7

3 25 1642 Winona Rachel FR 24:02.0 7 ( 50) 1639 Laura Nakasaka FR 24:28.4

4 33 1633 Shira Kaufman SO 24:17.8

4. 132 UW-La Crosse (23:55.2 119:35.9 1:21.6)

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1 8 1940 Laura Mead JR 23:12.5 5 57 1934 Taylor Bauer SO 24:34.1

2 17 1943 Natalie Powell SO 23:41.6 6 ( 58) 1945 Lisa Rydeen JR 24:35.0

3 24 1951 Rebecca Zych JR 24:01.7 7 ( 64) 1949 Ellen Smith SO 24:41.6

4 26 1939 Alyssa Luker SR 24:06.0

5. 158 St Scholastica (23:54.2 119:30.7 2:33.5)

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1 1 1884 Chelsea Marie Johnson SR 22:03.7 5 60 1881 Taylor Gibson FR 24:37.2

2 28 1890 Andrea Mogren SO 24:12.8 6 (124) 1899 Nikki Roach FR 25:47.7

3 29 1877 Liz Braml SO 24:13.5 7 (143) 1876 Bre Adams SR 26:13.8

4 40 1885 Jordan Johnson FR 24:23.5

5. 158 St. Olaf (23:51.0 119:14.9 2:29.3)

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1 2 1861 Noelle Olson FR 22:20.0 5 68 1847 Meggie Exner SR 24:49.3

2 10 1852 Jorden Johnson JR 23:24.7 6 ( 69) 1869 Allison Trezona FR 24:51.3

3 27 1859 Moriah Novacinski SR 24:12.3 7 ( 75) 1875 Grace Wilson FR 24:56.3

4 51 1840 Michaela Banz JR 24:28.6

7. 177 UW-Stevens Pt (24:09.2 120:46.0 0:49.7)

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1 14 2006 Ana Breit JR 23:37.0 5 49 2018 Holly Winberg SO 24:26.7

It may not have counted according to the standards because it was too early in the season.

Do you see any DI teams really scoring at large points that early in the season?No, it has to be in your last couple of meets, which means around oct 10th and later, including conference meets. Which is why it means going to Oshkosh, Oberlin, Lacrosse meets. I think Conn College has an inter regional type meet as well.I think every DI team went to either pre-nats or the Wisc-Madison meets on Oct 18/19th and for most thats where they get their at-large points, although now with such spread out conferences spreading teams across regions in DI, meets like the Big East, ACC, SEC, and Pac 10 and 12 cut across regions and potentially give teams more at large chances. In D3 the UAA is really the only conference that has people in multiple regions.IMHO, it seems like the NE women should have gotten at least one more team, and maybe the midwest men. Otherwise looks about right. How the central men got that many?, and the Atlantic women getting 6? Ithaca got smoked at Oberlin, and were 6th in their regional and scored close to 200 points.6 days will tell the tale.

You are accurate that the Roy Griak meet does not count according to DIII's selection criteria. However, it is a meet that contributes points in D1:

"a. In order to maintain seven competition opportunities, institutions must accumulate wins (points) between the seventh

weekend prior to the NCAA regional meet (i.e., Friday, Saturday and Sunday, September 27-29, 2013) through the

conclusion of NCAA Regional Cross Country Championships (scheduled for November 15, 2013)." (from the NCAA D1 Pre-Championships manual)

We need to revise our selection criteria. We have very few inter-regional meets in DIII and many of them occur during the last 2 weekends in September. Head-to-head competition is the fairest way to select teams, even if it occurs early in the season. We have an extremely limited data set in DIII--there's no sense in limiting it even more.

In the mideast region Dickinson came up huge for the number 2 spot without their 1,3,4 guys who did not run.

There is no case for Wheaton,Stout, and Platteville. They failed to beat anybody of significance the entire season, and finished 100 points behind the 5th team. You got to have good wins if you are on the bubble

Stout did beat Carleton by 11 at Eau Claire, but Carleton's #2 and #3 did not run. Other then that, nothing great for Stout, unless you count their win over Wheaton and Willamette at Oshkosh great.

Wheaton's biggest win came over Willamette, the West #3 team, at Oshkosh. Other then that, nothing significant

Platteville's resume is terrible, and it is somewhat laughable that you think they should get in ahead of Loras,Carleton,Luther, and Manchester. They were beaten by 104 at La Crosse by Wartburg. Wartburg was beaten by 43 by Loras at Regionals. It is also worth noting that Platteville lost by 214 to Luther at La Crosse

Here are the resume's of the teams who were picked ahead of the Midwest Schools

Loras defeated Claremont and Manchester at Pre-Nats, and would have beaten Bowdoin by 20 if they had 5 finishers. They also beat Luther at Conference.

Manchester beat Claremont at Pre-Nats and would have beaten Bowdoin by 1 if they had five finishers

Luther beat Stout at Eau Claire and then beat Loras at Regionals

Carleton Beat Loras

I thought Bowdoin would get in before Manchester since they had beaten Bates and Colby before, but Manchester did only finish 30 points behind Wabash and Calvin which means they had a strong Regional Race.

The regional points criterion is specious. Sure Manchester was close to Wabash and Calvin, but those teams aren't very good. Of course Bowdoin scored a ton of points at Regionals because there are so many good teams in that region. It's even worse for Bates women--they put up a high point total because 3 of the top 5 women's team in the country are in their region. Regions with podium-level teams really increase the point totals for the schools in bubble/at-large positions. This should not be a factor in selecting teams.

boy you knew this would get hilarious...the results of the regional meets are "specious" for picking the field.

and we should be more concerned about who beat who at roy griak than who ran well at regionals.

Stentra ran. they were missing 2 guys though

The current system is going to reward any conference that had a shake-up from regions to nationals. Loras beat Luther at its conference meet but then got fifth at regionals. Luther was third at regionals, which makes them a pretty easy call for qualification, and suddenly Loras has now beat an NCAA team within the past two weeks.

Had the order of Iowa teams held from conference to regions, with Loras beating Luther in both meets, and Luther getting fifth at regions, then the Central region likely only gets four teams. It's a bit circular, but at least now without region caps they can be fairly certain of getting the top 18-20 top teams in every year.

I think now regional realignment will be more supported since it will allow out of region competition at a lot of conference meets.

Ok, but lets say this. If people are traveling to Griak or Williams the last week of september, then coaches need to change their schedules and spend their money traveling when a) the meet means more for ncaa selection and b) your team should be fitter and ready more 2-3 weeks later to show what you got.No program cant afford to figure away to get to one decent meet 2 weeks prior to conference, no matter where you are in the country.

fairness in diii wrote:

You are accurate that the Roy Griak meet does not count according to DIII's selection criteria. However, it is a meet that contributes points in D1:

"a. In order to maintain seven competition opportunities, institutions must accumulate wins (points) between the seventh

weekend prior to the NCAA regional meet (i.e., Friday, Saturday and Sunday, September 27-29, 2013) through the

conclusion of NCAA Regional Cross Country Championships (scheduled for November 15, 2013)." (from the NCAA D1 Pre-Championships manual)

We need to revise our selection criteria. We have very few inter-regional meets in DIII and many of them occur during the last 2 weekends in September. Head-to-head competition is the fairest way to select teams, even if it occurs early in the season. We have an extremely limited data set in DIII--there's no sense in limiting it even more.

/> wrote:

I think now regional realignment will be more supported since it will allow out of region competition at a lot of conference meets.

hahaha. the ncaa couldn't give a shit about realignment or "out of region competition" in d3. realignment isn't going anywhere any time soon. it's tabled.

fairness in diii wrote:

You are accurate that the Roy Griak meet does not count according to DIII's selection criteria. However, it is a meet that contributes points in D1:

"a. In order to maintain seven competition opportunities, institutions must accumulate wins (points) between the seventh

weekend prior to the NCAA regional meet (i.e., Friday, Saturday and Sunday, September 27-29, 2013) through the

conclusion of NCAA Regional Cross Country Championships (scheduled for November 15, 2013)." (from the NCAA D1 Pre-Championships manual)

We need to revise our selection criteria. We have very few inter-regional meets in DIII and many of them occur during the last 2 weekends in September. Head-to-head competition is the fairest way to select teams, even if it occurs early in the season. We have an extremely limited data set in DIII--there's no sense in limiting it even more.

actually, given the ridiculously tiny budgets the vast majority of teams cope with, you could make the case that it's unfair to include out-of-region competition AT ALL as a criterion. it just favors the programs who have $ to travel. and we know whothey are because we see them jetting all over the country in September and October.