"Pandemic of the unvaccinated" CONFIRMED

Harambe · 2021-08-20T14:09:00-04:00

See thread: https://twitter.com/profshanecrotty/status/1428785670110150657 "So, the vast majority of transmissions are unvaxxed."

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4 years ago 11/09/2021 2:01pm EST

re: Concerned party

Concerned party wrote:
The CDC noted that 25 out of every 100,000 residents in counties that heavily voted for President Donald Trump last November died from COVID in October, which was more than three times higher than the rate in heavily Joe Biden counties (7.8 per 100,000). And October was the fifth straight month when the gap between COVID deaths in Trump and Biden counties widened. Remember during the 220 campaign when Trump preached that we were turning the corner on Covid ? I guess his voters didn't know where the corner was !!!

The Dems that were going to die all got COVID early in the pandemic, that is why their rate is lower now (it just took Republicans longer to finally contract the disease due to geographic and climate differences). Truth is, pretty much everyone is going to get it. Look at data from the UK. 98% of the population has COVID antibodies, yet their weekly cases loads are still more than double ours on a per capita basis. 1.5% of the cases are reinfections, while about 60% are breakthrough infections.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1031157/Vaccine-surveillance-report-week-44.pdf

When you just look at cases for those over 18 (80+% of the unvaccinated cases), 87% of the cases are among vaccinated individuals (and the vaccination rate for those over 18 is about 90%). This is no longer just a pandemic of the unvaccinated. In fact, case rates are higher in the UK among the vaccinated than among the unvaccinated in age groups 30 and above (this is likely due to a higher degree of natural immunity in the unvaxxed).

Age Group Cases / 100k vaccinated Cases / 100k unvaccinated

Under 18 345.8 2,891.2

18-29 614.4 709.5

30-39 1,221.3 893.0

40-49 2,124.6 932.9

50-59 1,408.8 656.1

60-69 998.8 460.5

70-79 740.6 372.9

80+ 480.3 374.9

4 years ago 11/09/2021 2:05pm EST

re: joed|rtay

joed|rtay wrote:
Concerned party wrote:
The CDC noted that 25 out of every 100,000 residents in counties that heavily voted for President Donald Trump last November died from COVID in October, which was more than three times higher than the rate in heavily Joe Biden counties (7.8 per 100,000). And October was the fifth straight month when the gap between COVID deaths in Trump and Biden counties widened. Remember during the 220 campaign when Trump preached that we were turning the corner on Covid ? I guess his voters didn't know where the corner was !!!
The Dems that were going to die all got COVID early in the pandemic, that is why their rate is lower now (it just took Republicans longer to finally contract the disease due to geographic and climate differences). Truth is, pretty much everyone is going to get it. Look at data from the UK. 98% of the population has COVID antibodies, yet their weekly cases loads are still more than double ours on a per capita basis. 1.5% of the cases are reinfections, while about 60% are breakthrough infections.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1031157/Vaccine-surveillance-report-week-44.pdf
When you just look at cases for those over 18 (80+% of the unvaccinated cases), 87% of the cases are among vaccinated individuals (and the vaccination rate for those over 18 is about 90%). This is no longer just a pandemic of the unvaccinated. In fact, case rates are higher in the UK among the vaccinated than among the unvaccinated in age groups 30 and above (this is likely due to a higher degree of natural immunity in the unvaxxed).
Age Group Cases / 100k vaccinated Cases / 100k unvaccinated
Under 18 345.8 2,891.2
18-29 614.4 709.5
30-39 1,221.3 893.0
40-49 2,124.6 932.9
50-59 1,408.8 656.1
60-69 998.8 460.5
70-79 740.6 372.9
80+ 480.3 374.9

Now do severe disease and death. The UK has consistently had high numbers around breakthroughs. We have discussed this a lot. Your assessment that the case rates are due to natural immunity from the unvax is entirely baseless!

Israel stopped being convenient for anti-vaxxers but their data point to still durable protection against infection in 2 dose vaxxed people. Way way higher against severe disease and death.

https://twitter.com/jsm2334/status/1458139222737506304?s=20

4 years ago 11/09/2021 2:07pm EST

re: Monkeys Skyping

Monkeys Skyping wrote:
fisky wrote:
Thanks for posting this. Sadly, as long as the CDC is under Rochelle Walensky's leadership, I do not consider the CDC to be a reliable source.
Well, that certainly opens up the field to believe one's preferred narrative without interference from objective metrics.

Yes. Heaven forbid we make judgements based on facts, experience, and thinking

4 years ago 11/09/2021 2:09pm EST

re: 2600 bro

Looking at the Week 44 report it's clear the AZ vaccines is simply not effective enough to prevent breakthrough infections of Delta COVID-19 (40-50% VE). Still very good against severe disease and death (80%++).

Pfizer and Moderna remain 75%+ against infection and 95%+ against severe disease and death. This explains why Israel is outperforming UK in terms of breakthrough infections....

4 years ago 11/09/2021 2:13pm EST

re: 2600 bro

How is a breakthrough infection different than an infection?

Other than the use of language to attempt to make people think they are rare as they are breakthroughs?

Dishonest language comes from dishonest sources

4 years ago 11/09/2021 2:15pm EST

re: Well.....

Well..... wrote:
joed|rtay wrote:
The fact that he is a non-reponder to the vaccine means he likely will not have the cytokine storm that causes issues with COVID. Likewise, HIV / AIDS is not really a pre-existing condition that affects COVID mortality (like previous stroke, cardiac issues, diabetes, etc.). He is actually more likely to have a long term, but largely asymptomatic infection and shed variants. So really, he is more of a threat to others than the unvaccinated. At this point, with waning vaccine immunity, the vaccinated are only slightly less of a threat to others than the unvaccinated, so stop pretending that the unvaccinated are this grave threat towards others. At this point, the vaccinated are almost as much of a threat (especially if they had the J and J or Pfizer shot.
You aren't really making sense, but you're trying to conflate different things. Studies have been done, they are more likely to die or get seriously ill if they get covid than not. This isn't about whether he is more of a threat to you. Don't be such a weaka$$, they don't have much choice. It's about people trying to prevent them getting ill or dying. You have that choice to help protect them by getting vaccinated which has a 3x reduction on average of passing it on. That figure does vary by age and time since vaccinated, but it's still a significant amount less than if unvaccinated.

See the post above regarding the UK, where vaccinated individuals over 30 have higher infection rates than unvaccinated individuals over 30. See studies comparing viral loads among the vaxxed and unvaxxed (spoiler alert, then are similar) look at secondary attack rates for those with a breakthrough infection (25%) versus those with an unvaccinated infection (38%). What you will find is that the unvaccinated (especially the unvaccinated who have had a prior COVID infection) are no more of a threat to others than the vaccinated.

4 years ago 11/09/2021 2:50pm EST

re: joed|rtay

joed|rtay wrote:
Well..... wrote:
You aren't really making sense, but you're trying to conflate different things. Studies have been done, they are more likely to die or get seriously ill if they get covid than not. This isn't about whether he is more of a threat to you. Don't be such a weaka$$, they don't have much choice. It's about people trying to prevent them getting ill or dying. You have that choice to help protect them by getting vaccinated which has a 3x reduction on average of passing it on. That figure does vary by age and time since vaccinated, but it's still a significant amount less than if unvaccinated.
See the post above regarding the UK, where vaccinated individuals over 30 have higher infection rates than unvaccinated individuals over 30. See studies comparing viral loads among the vaxxed and unvaxxed (spoiler alert, then are similar) look at secondary attack rates for those with a breakthrough infection (25%) versus those with an unvaccinated infection (38%). What you will find is that the unvaccinated (especially the unvaccinated who have had a prior COVID infection) are no more of a threat to others than the vaccinated.

Viral loads decrease far faster in vaccinated people than unvaccinated, even if they start at the same point. Furthermore the chance of becoming infected is lower!

Also, If we assign a 40% decrease in SAR the label “similar” then yes… you’re correct.

Once again the anti-vax play is to claim anything that’s not perfect is not worth doing and then to choose random populations, metrics and endpoints to make their case.

4 years ago 11/09/2021 3:27pm EST

re: 2600 bro

These are really dumb arguments. Unvacced who have the antibodies have already spread the virus and a reasonable number died of those and those they have passed it onto. They will also get the virus again in time and do the same. The whole point is to prevent this in the first place. Not say that now I've spread the virus and killed people I have more antibodies so less likely to oO.

4 years ago 11/09/2021 3:54pm EST

re: well.........

[quote]well......... wrote:

These are really dumb arguments. Unvacced who have the antibodies have already spread the virus and a reasonable number died of those and those they have passed it onto.

Really?

4 years ago 11/09/2021 3:54pm EST

re: joed|rtay

4 years ago 11/09/2021 3:59pm EST

re: carmine9

carmine9 wrote:
[quote]well......... wrote:
These are really dumb arguments. Unvacced who have the antibodies have already spread the virus and a reasonable number died of those and those they have passed it onto.
Really?

I am unvaxxed, have had no symptoms whatsoever, but must have had this incredibly infectious disease seeing as how a few people I know and have been in contact with have had Covid, including someone I live with.

Thus I have passed on the virus and killed a number of people.

Oddly, nobody I know has even been hospitalized never mind died.

I guess all the people I know and am in close contact with on a regular basis not dying is an anomaly, I must have killed lots of strangers that I passed by in a matter of seconds.

Makes mucho sense

4 years ago 11/09/2021 4:02pm EST

re: well.........

We have a rule in this thread that if you cannot use the quote function properly you don’t get a response.

Wonder who I could be talking about?

4 years ago 11/09/2021 4:06pm EST

re: 2600 bro

2600 bro wrote:
We have a rule in this thread that if you cannot use the quote function properly you don’t get a response.
Wonder who I could be talking about?

Where is that rule?

Any rules about posters using the "look over there" method to avoid points made by other posters than expose you as being 100% wrong?

4 years ago 11/09/2021 6:28pm EST

re: carmine9

carmine9 wrote:
I am unvaxxed, have had no symptoms whatsoever, but must have had this incredibly infectious disease seeing as how a few people I know and have been in contact with have had Covid, including someone I live with.
Thus I have passed on the virus and killed a number of people.
Oddly, nobody I know has even been hospitalized never mind died.
I guess all the people I know and am in close contact with on a regular basis not dying is an anomaly, I must have killed lots of strangers that I passed by in a matter of seconds.
Makes mucho sense

Guys like you say this bravely until they are on a ventillator and stupidly plead for a vaccination

4 years ago 11/09/2021 6:31pm EST

re: 2600 bro

2600 bro wrote:
joed|rtay wrote:
See the post above regarding the UK, where vaccinated individuals over 30 have higher infection rates than unvaccinated individuals over 30. See studies comparing viral loads among the vaxxed and unvaxxed (spoiler alert, then are similar) look at secondary attack rates for those with a breakthrough infection (25%) versus those with an unvaccinated infection (38%). What you will find is that the unvaccinated (especially the unvaccinated who have had a prior COVID infection) are no more of a threat to others than the vaccinated.
Viral loads decrease far faster in vaccinated people than unvaccinated, even if they start at the same point. Furthermore the chance of becoming infected is lower!
Also, If we assign a 40% decrease in SAR the label “similar” then yes… you’re correct.
Once again the anti-vax play is to claim anything that’s not perfect is not worth doing and then to choose random populations, metrics and endpoints to make their case.

Let's do that. Combining the infection data by age group from the UK (where working age adults who are vaccinated are more likely to get a COVID infection than an unvaccinated individual) using the attack rate for each, here is what the math tells us:

A vaccinated 30-39 year old is 23.9% more likely to spread COVID to another than an unvaccinated 30-39 year old

A vaccinated 40-49 year old is 106% more likely to spread COVID to another than an unvaccinated 40-49 year old

A vaccinated 50-59 year old is 94.5% more likely to spread COVID to another than an unvaccinated 50-59 year old

A vaccinated 60-69 year old is 96.5% more likely to spread COVID to another than an unvaccinated 60-69 year old

So, these vaccination mandates where we are firing health care workers, public safety workers, etc. (many of whom have previous infections and are less likely to spread COVID to others) are not based in science, but in fear and politics.

4 years ago 11/09/2021 6:44pm EST

re: joed|rtay

joed|rtay wrote:
2600 bro wrote:
Viral loads decrease far faster in vaccinated people than unvaccinated, even if they start at the same point. Furthermore the chance of becoming infected is lower!
Also, If we assign a 40% decrease in SAR the label “similar” then yes… you’re correct.
Once again the anti-vax play is to claim anything that’s not perfect is not worth doing and then to choose random populations, metrics and endpoints to make their case.
Let's do that. Combining the infection data by age group from the UK (where working age adults who are vaccinated are more likely to get a COVID infection than an unvaccinated individual) using the attack rate for each, here is what the math tells us:
A vaccinated 30-39 year old is 23.9% more likely to spread COVID to another than an unvaccinated 30-39 year old
A vaccinated 40-49 year old is 106% more likely to spread COVID to another than an unvaccinated 40-49 year old
A vaccinated 50-59 year old is 94.5% more likely to spread COVID to another than an unvaccinated 50-59 year old
A vaccinated 60-69 year old is 96.5% more likely to spread COVID to another than an unvaccinated 60-69 year old
So, these vaccination mandates where we are firing health care workers, public safety workers, etc. (many of whom have previous infections and are less likely to spread COVID to others) are not based in science, but in fear and politics.

No you cannot just multiple incidence by household SAR to predict the “chance of spreading.” WTF are you doing… is it past your bedtime?

4 years ago 11/09/2021 6:50pm EST

re: I am Sam

I am Sam wrote:
carmine9 wrote:
I am unvaxxed, have had no symptoms whatsoever, but must have had this incredibly infectious disease seeing as how a few people I know and have been in contact with have had Covid, including someone I live with.
Thus I have passed on the virus and killed a number of people.
Oddly, nobody I know has even been hospitalized never mind died.
I guess all the people I know and am in close contact with on a regular basis not dying is an anomaly, I must have killed lots of strangers that I passed by in a matter of seconds.
Makes mucho sense
Guys like you say this bravely until they are on a ventillator and stupidly plead for a vaccination

Except that he is not on a ventilator. He is healthy.

Keep trying to act tough on the internet.

4 years ago 11/09/2021 6:57pm EST

re: 2600 bro

2600 bro wrote:
joed|rtay wrote:
Let's do that. Combining the infection data by age group from the UK (where working age adults who are vaccinated are more likely to get a COVID infection than an unvaccinated individual) using the attack rate for each, here is what the math tells us:
A vaccinated 30-39 year old is 23.9% more likely to spread COVID to another than an unvaccinated 30-39 year old
A vaccinated 40-49 year old is 106% more likely to spread COVID to another than an unvaccinated 40-49 year old
A vaccinated 50-59 year old is 94.5% more likely to spread COVID to another than an unvaccinated 50-59 year old
A vaccinated 60-69 year old is 96.5% more likely to spread COVID to another than an unvaccinated 60-69 year old
So, these vaccination mandates where we are firing health care workers, public safety workers, etc. (many of whom have previous infections and are less likely to spread COVID to others) are not based in science, but in fear and politics.
No you cannot just multiple incidence by household SAR to predict the “chance of spreading.” WTF are you doing… is it past your bedtime?

Yes he can. He presented irrefutable evidence. You just stutter in response "but! But! But!".

Hey 2600bro, what is your chance of recovering from a mild case of covid?

4 years ago 11/09/2021 7:03pm EST

re: Bullet_Proof

Bullet_Proof wrote:
2600 bro wrote:
No you cannot just multiple incidence by household SAR to predict the “chance of spreading.” WTF are you doing… is it past your bedtime?
Yes he can. He presented irrefutable evidence. You just stutter in response "but! But! But!".
Hey 2600bro, what is your chance of recovering from a mild case of covid?

Fine I'll be more courteous.

I honestly do not understand what the relative comparison of (weekly prevalence * household SAR from the UK study) for unvax vs vax means here. I guess it means "chances a given person, stratified by vaccination status, will transmit COVID in a household setting with no other assumptions.

That has little do with a chance a positive individual will transmit COVID (it's lower for vax) or the chance they will be infected by COVID (lower for vaccinated in USA and Israel (mRNA vaccines), but maybe not England.)

FYI: Nothing either us has said is "irrefutable," generally if something is truly irrefutable it's just bad science. All claims and hypothesis must be falsifiable :)

4 years ago 11/09/2021 7:09pm EST

re: Bullet_Proof

Bullet_Proof wrote:
I am Sam wrote:
Guys like you say this bravely until they are on a ventillator and stupidly plead for a vaccination
Except that he is not on a ventilator. He is healthy.
Keep trying to act tough on the internet.

Yep...like all the others who pleaded for a vaccination. It would be a joke if it wasn't so serious.

...and it appears you do not comprehend English

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