Larry Bird will be 10th best.He could not play a lick of defense.
Larry Bird will be 10th best.He could not play a lick of defense.
lpd wrote:
Larry Bird will be 10th best.He could not play a Frenchlick of defense.
I fixed that for you.
Chamberlain was the greatest and the strongest NBA player of all time.
See Shaq lose to Barley in the bench press.
." Blake Griffin is another guy. Even among leapers, he's a standout leaper-----but he has no offensive repertoire. No moves. No game"
6'10"
Yes. Larry Bird is the Greatest NBA Player of All Time.
I believe Abdul-Jabbar is the all time best player.
He was unstoppable on offense and was MVP for probably 10 years in a row. It was well understood he was the best and the league gave the the award to the 2nd place MVP to create interest.
Sure, he played forever and you can't punish him in the rankings for when he was 40.
Wilt is number 2. He changed his style when he went to the Lakers-- Wilts early career with his unworldly scoring numbers puts all others in their 2nd tier places.
I think the "superstar treatment" has existed since I started watching religiously in the 1970s. I always hated it. I agree with Jordan being permitted to shove you while you could not breathe on him. They always had a quick whistle for everybody's backup center, too. I never understood that nonsense. Just call the game straight. I remember Robert Parish shuffling his feet----clearly traveling, but it didn't get called. If Scott Hastings did that, they'd call it. Everybody knew it. It made the NBA a little phony----like pro wrestling. That stuff was happening back in the 80s.I also recall certain different "evolutionary steps" in what ball handling liberties were permitted. When Bob Cousy dribbled, he never palmed the ball and turned it over. He patted the top of the ball. It looked stiff---but that's how you had to do it. Somewhere, palming became permissible. Allen Iverson practically grabbed the bottom of the ball and turned the ball over with his dribble. The NBA allowed it-----even though it was clearly wrong. Somewhere, the hop step became permissible-----I swear I remember James Worthy doing it in the early 90s or late 80s. I don't recall it being a big part of Jordan's or Bird's games. The hop step is a blatant travel-----and it is a staple in LeBron's game today. I think the NBA rule book was changed this year or last regarding the steps you're allowed. It would make sense, as traveling in the NBA------while always an issue as long as I've watched------is admittedly at an all-time high for nonsense, aka the number of steps taken, IMO. It's worse now than I ever remember it. And the hopping after catching the ball with 2 feet down------IS new. And it's a blatant traveling violation... but they allow it. I never used to see it.
Mr Cynical wrote:
Kendall J wrote:The way the game is officiated-----particularly regarding TRAVELING------is a JOKE.
I can only guess that young fans simply don't know that you couldn't always hop step or take 3 steps---then a hop. Used to be called "steps" and it resulted in a turnover. Now it's how LeBron James gets to the rim pretty much all the time. How is anyone supposed to take his ascent up the ladder of all-time greats seriously with his hopscotching?
They were saying THE EXACT same thing in the 80s 90s, 2000s, and now. Some things never change. Jordan was famous for shoving guys out of the way to clear space or in his later years bumping guys off for an easy post up. John Stockton was one of the dirtiest (or conniving) players in the league. He would pull guys into him, fall down and get a foul called on the other guy. These kinds of things have been going on for decades and always will.
I agree with the following:
1) there has been dubious, lax, selective enforcement of traveling rules for forever in the NBA.
2) what the NBA permits today (ball handling wise) is far beyond any previous level of BS ever in that area.
Bird fan wrote:
Bird's my favorite.
But there's no denying that the vast majority of basketball people agree that Michael Jordan is the all time best.
We'll just have to live with it.
Yes, "basketball people" might say Jordan is the best but who does just about EVERY top player (Wilt, Jordan, Durant, West, Magic etc.)talk about? LARRY BIRD! The fans may talk about Jordan but the PLAYERS talk about Bird! In other words the players respected Jordan but they were AFRAID of Bird!
Yes
Top 10
Joey Blerko wrote:
Jordan was a tremendous talent who had an incredible desire to win... But the truth is he didn't win unless a lot of specific people and situations were just right. 1st of all, Pippen HAD to be there to facilitate the offense. No Pippen, no winning. And no Phil Jackson, no winning. Jordan gets a lot of credit for 'makIng teammates better'. Well, he bullied teammates, but didn't win if Pippen wasn't there or Phil. When he was credited with 'showing the young Washington team how to win', they didn't win and an over the hill MJ still insisted on taking the most shots instead of having one of the young bucks he was supposedly 'showing how to win' do it. It's just his nature to hog. He never knew about TEAM, you can see it in how lousy he was as an executive. Not a clue. Yell at guys. Embarrass them. Bully them. But help them? Not on your life. Even his best teams never had to go through a powerful foe in the midst of their own prime run, like the Lakers, Celtics and Sixers had to with each other in the 80s. Nah. The Bulls just waited until all those teams got old. Then they dominated a league in the 90s full of All-Stars who, like Jordan, never won a darned thing in the 80s despite playing HALF of that decade. Only Olajuwon made an 80s Final of all of those 90s stars who came into the NBA in that '84-'86 era. How telling is it that Stockton and Malone----easily the 90s' top PF and PG----were together for something like 12 years before GETTING to a Finals? And that was the best the NBA could throw at those Bulls teams in the 90s. Jordan dominated NBA Lite in the 90s, waiting for better players in the 80s to get old. Larry Bird was one of those better players.
This is utter crap. So you mean to tell me that Larry bird, Magic Johnson, and Wilt didn't have any all stars on their team when they won. Last time I checked, nobody wins NBA titles alone
Larry Bird only is remembered because he was white. Mediocre talent at best.
[quote]Kendall J wrote:
The free throw shooting is atrocious. The court vision is non-existent,
Players used to develop skills in college, now they are scouted through high school and stalked in AAU leagues. They are pampered and babied as young teens and attend 1 year of college because they have to-----then they go to the NBA as spoiled, undeveloped, uneducated, unskilled, yet highly athletic CLOWNS. quote]
Don't let a good story get in the way of facts.
The 2008-2009 season produced the best free throw shooting in the history of the NBA tying the 1973-74 season. There have been ebbs and flows but the % have stayed pretty consistent from 1969 to present. You can see trends in ft shooting as the "athlete/defense years" Riley tried to ruin the league from 1993-1999 were lower than the 40 year average. All shooting was because they put too much emphasis on defense.
Other observations that can be made are the pace of the games has really slowed down even though the same 24 second shot clock is in use. The 3 point % has continued to climb while the overall fg% has declined. The efficiency in comparison to the pace has stayed pretty consistent and has actually been rising the last few years.
The NBA does everything they can to set the rules and call the games in a way to keep the average scores around 100. When they get lower than that, they are accused of thug/football and when they get much higher, they are accused of playing no defense.
Anybody that actually watches a lot of high school, college, and NBA can see that the NBA players are not only the greatest leapers but also the greatest passers, shooters, and defenders in the world. Just ask any coach or analyst about what stat stands out the most and they will tell you it is assists. The teams that pass well and have a lot of assists are usually the teams that win.
You can go here for some info
Did the original poster state that Wilt, Bird and Magic won titles without help...? Or was he commenting on the failure of Michael Jordan's teams to win even more than half of their regular season games in a y given year without Pippen or Phil Jackson (a claim I've seen made here----but one I've never had the energy to verify! Lol.)
hmmm......... wrote:
Joey Blerko wrote:Jordan was a tremendous talent who had an incredible desire to win... But the truth is he didn't win unless a lot of specific people and situations were just right. 1st of all, Pippen HAD to be there to facilitate the offense. No Pippen, no winning. And no Phil Jackson, no winning. Jordan gets a lot of credit for 'makIng teammates better'. Well, he bullied teammates, but didn't win if Pippen wasn't there or Phil. When he was credited with 'showing the young Washington team how to win', they didn't win and an over the hill MJ still insisted on taking the most shots instead of having one of the young bucks he was supposedly 'showing how to win' do it. It's just his nature to hog. He never knew about TEAM, you can see it in how lousy he was as an executive. Not a clue. Yell at guys. Embarrass them. Bully them. But help them? Not on your life. Even his best teams never had to go through a powerful foe in the midst of their own prime run, like the Lakers, Celtics and Sixers had to with each other in the 80s. Nah. The Bulls just waited until all those teams got old. Then they dominated a league in the 90s full of All-Stars who, like Jordan, never won a darned thing in the 80s despite playing HALF of that decade. Only Olajuwon made an 80s Final of all of those 90s stars who came into the NBA in that '84-'86 era. How telling is it that Stockton and Malone----easily the 90s' top PF and PG----were together for something like 12 years before GETTING to a Finals? And that was the best the NBA could throw at those Bulls teams in the 90s. Jordan dominated NBA Lite in the 90s, waiting for better players in the 80s to get old. Larry Bird was one of those better players.
This is utter crap. So you mean to tell me that Larry bird, Magic Johnson, and Wilt didn't have any all stars on their team when they won. Last time I checked, nobody wins NBA titles alone
I was just reading the original poster here again. Does anyone else find it crazy that Stockton and Malone played 12 years together before even making it to a Finals? Wouldn't they be the consensus All-90s point guard and power forward? And they played together all that time before getting to the Finals.
hmmm......... wrote:
Joey Blerko wrote:Jordan was a tremendous talent who had an incredible desire to win... But the truth is he didn't win unless a lot of specific people and situations were just right. 1st of all, Pippen HAD to be there to facilitate the offense. No Pippen, no winning. And no Phil Jackson, no winning. Jordan gets a lot of credit for 'makIng teammates better'. Well, he bullied teammates, but didn't win if Pippen wasn't there or Phil. When he was credited with 'showing the young Washington team how to win', they didn't win and an over the hill MJ still insisted on taking the most shots instead of having one of the young bucks he was supposedly 'showing how to win' do it. It's just his nature to hog. He never knew about TEAM, you can see it in how lousy he was as an executive. Not a clue. Yell at guys. Embarrass them. Bully them. But help them? Not on your life. Even his best teams never had to go through a powerful foe in the midst of their own prime run, like the Lakers, Celtics and Sixers had to with each other in the 80s. Nah. The Bulls just waited until all those teams got old. Then they dominated a league in the 90s full of All-Stars who, like Jordan, never won a darned thing in the 80s despite playing HALF of that decade. Only Olajuwon made an 80s Final of all of those 90s stars who came into the NBA in that '84-'86 era. How telling is it that Stockton and Malone----easily the 90s' top PF and PG----were together for something like 12 years before GETTING to a Finals? And that was the best the NBA could throw at those Bulls teams in the 90s. Jordan dominated NBA Lite in the 90s, waiting for better players in the 80s to get old. Larry Bird was one of those better players.
This is utter crap. So you mean to tell me that Larry bird, Magic Johnson, and Wilt didn't have any all stars on their team when they won. Last time I checked, nobody wins NBA titles alone
M. Corbin wrote:
the failure of Michael Jordan's teams to win even more than half of their regular season games in a y given year without Pippen or Phil Jackson (a claim I've seen made here----but one I've never had the energy to verify! Lol.)
]
Chicago was 38-44, 30-52, and 40-42 Jordan's first 3 years in the league before Pippen got there. They won their first title in Jordan's 7th and Pippen's 4th year. It was Phil Jackson's 2nd year with the team.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/detroitdude wrote:
Larry Bird only is remembered because he was white. Mediocre talent at best.
Is this Isiah or Rodman typing? (Just noticed your name---detroitdude!!)
[quote]ducked to miss the rim
Don't let a good story get in the way of facts.
The 2008-2009 season produced the best free throw shooting in the history of the NBA tying the 1973-74 season. There have been ebbs and flows but the % have stayed pretty consistent from 1969 to present.
I looked and saw this season's FT% to be about 75%. Definitely not "atrocious".