New HEPS thread for 2009

I just got home from watching the meet. Since there has been a lot of discussion about the 1500m results and Wyner, I might as well put in the in-person perspective of it:

As you saw from the video, Wyner celebrated with 60m to go. However, one of the gestures he did was spread his arms out wide, which I can see as being an impeding gesture to the Dartmouth guy right behind him along the rail. That was why Dartmouth was booing, because it looks like Wyner used his arms to block the Dartmouth runner. Other members of the crowd, myself included, booed because of his over-the-top gestures way before the race was over. I could understand if he did that if a) he was 50m in the lead or b) he did it AFTER the finish line. But there were WAY too many people around to do that if you're in first place.

There was one other DQ in the meet: Huber was DQed in the 400m hurdles because of a trail-leg violation (his trail leg went along side the hurdle instead of over it) and as a result, lost his 1st place standing to Justin Grinstead of Harvard. There was no booing in this instead, just questions as to what the violation was.

Overall, it was an excellent meet. I'm glad I could have made it in person to see it.

First, it was the Dartmouth crowd.

And he specifically taunted the Dartmouth crowd, hence the DQ.

That dartmouth guy was yards back by the time Jimmy put his arms out.

Jimmy is a cocky and unsportsmanlike guy generally in these public situations, but he clearly won.

Maag did run a great race though, if it had been faster paced race it might have been closer.

Robbins from Dartmouth was just behind Wyner along the rail, at most a half a step behind him.

I have a feeling that people can argue this until they are blue in the face, but I feel he deserved the DQ.

who knew about Wyner? wrote:

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

Yes, I tend to be biased with defending my friends. However, stating my opinions on letsrun does not affect race results.

Wow Wyner has friends not affiliated with Cornell? I'm friends with a (non-track) Cornell athlete who has several friends on the track team and his impression was that Wyner's teammates really only put up with or were friends with Wyner because you effectively HAVE to do so with you teammates. Impressive, therefore, that his friendship web reaches Texas.

That's why I don't judge people based on what friends of a friend of a friend say.

What about judging people based on horrible appearance and poor social skills in terrible interviews from the Olympic Trials? I judge people like that, jus' sayin'!

Your loss :)

Did anything happen to the Dartmouth team for their booing and chanting? Warning or so?

Miss Manners says that being rude in return to someone who has been rude to you is unacceptable behavior.

Why was Dartmouth allowed to boo and not also incur a penalty?

The biggest showboat/unsportsmanlike thing I remember seeing at Heps was when the Columbia women won their fourth consecutive XC title, and had Columbia-blue T-shirts already made up with "Fourth Consecutive Ivy XC Champion" or something like that printed on it that they put on immediately upon crossing the finish line so they could walk in front of the Princeton girls wearing them. Slightly more dignified than putting middle fingers on the backs of their shirts, I guess. . .

. . . Which probably inspired Princeton to print up their own shirts they wore this past fall that effectively said the same thing back.

I love the Ivy League. I love how competitive it is, but also how most of the athletes seem to be friendly toward each other.

It's not a popularity contest. Wyner won the race. It should count.

I've got tapes of most of the NCAA finals from the last 10 years here at home--nearly every year someone steps in front of someone, cuts them off and wins (remember the BYU girl who won in 2002--cutting off . . . was it Shalane Flanigan?) and even Ari Lambie running Brie Felnagle out into the 4th lane on the backstretch of the 1500. No one got DQ'd for that kind of stuff.

But the Ivy League DQs a guy for being a turkey?

I guess I've got friends in low places.

But like wrote:

No, he should have been a humble winner, show good sportsmanship and shake hands with his opponents. There's emotion, and then there's shameful glory. After the booing, I would have waved a hand, smiled and walked off the track like a professional.. afterall, that's what your suppose to do - act like a professional when your at a track meet.. it's business, not a showboating contest.

yeah it's only business. We should all just act like a bunch of friendly robots.

What a terrible decision by both Wyner and the officials. He was an idiot, he also won the race and should not of been DQd. Anyone who watches that video and thinks he impeded the Dartmouth runner is blind.

who knew about Wyner? wrote:

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

Yes, I tend to be biased with defending my friends. However, stating my opinions on letsrun does not affect race results.

Wow Wyner has friends not affiliated with Cornell? I'm friends with a (non-track) Cornell athlete who has several friends on the track team and his impression was that Wyner's teammates really only put up with or were friends with Wyner because you effectively HAVE to do so with you teammates. Impressive, therefore, that his friendship web reaches Texas.

my best friend's cousin's boyfriend said that you have no friends

A few things I noticed from the meet:

What was Amirault trying to do when he went down in the 1500? It was pretty clear he looked around a bunch, almost as if trying to find Maag (who I assume he was trying to make a faster race for), decided he couldn't see him or that he was behind him, and tried to swing out into lane 2 to make room for him to move up. In all that did he not notice the Miller on his shoulder? Curious move by the freshman.

It sucks when the throws aren't close enough to watch

Vutescu is very quick. Columbia couldn't throw 3 other guys into a 4x1 with him?

Oliver ran the ballsiest prelim I'd ever seen in the 800, a day before running the ballsiest 800 final I've ever seen, not to mention making it stick and pulling off the win. Props.

Wyner is an idiot for celebrating early, but he did not impede anyone (sorry big green, wasn't even close) and did not make motion to anyone. Excessive still? yes. DQ worthy? Nope. Watch the 10k from last year's meet and tell me Canaday did any less. Watch Boylan-Pett's celebrations and tell me the same. No one booed those, nor was there any talk of DQ.

The official standing at the finish line raised his white flag (which indicates all clean/clear) as they finished and milled about after.

Karma's a bitch.

Booing is considered unsportsmanlike according to the NCAA signs at my university.

Speaking of unsportsmanlike conduct, does sitting on your teammate until the last 200 of a 10k (in which you two are at least 100m ahead of our teammate in 3rd), and then blowing her doors off by cranking home as hard as you can sportsmanlike?

Did Karma get her back in the 5k?

Wyner's opponents should have been awarded 15 yards and an automatic First Down after the penalty.

Princeton also protested Amirault's fall. They subsequently lost the meet.

I'm really thinking this Karma thing might be true.

Maduka isn't invincible. That makes me even more of a fan of her. May she get healthy.

It's cool to see Harvard collecting some young talent in the 400s and Wieler.

Its even cooler to see the Men's DFL team scoring more than 45 points. A bit of competition brewing in the lower echelons methinks?

I'm impressed the officials spotted the trail leg violation in the men's IMs. The only other time I've heard of that happening was when I was watching the trial rounds of the Women's IMs at the Olympics.

Princeton will have the 4x400m to beat next year.

I am biased:

I love the HEPS!

robocop.. I think your taking my post to an extreme. When your at a business, you act in a respectful and courteous manner.. Where in there does that sound like a robotic means of representing one's self? If so, I think you need to re-check your definitions of repsectful and courteous. People are continually, and will continue to have fun at track meets, your supposed to. But answer this, why couldn't he just shake hands with maag and talk about the moves that were made in the race? Seems to me, that these days people are more obsessed with flashing their achievements upon others even when it's not needed, rather then letting the results speak for themselves.

The past few years the meet referee has been Harry Groves; if that was indeed the case this year . . . . he has the authority to overrule the official who made the call and he didn't. I'd trust him with his ruling - there is no way the meet referee Groves or no Groves was in the same position at Dartmouth when Wyner DQ'd himself. Yesterday's DQ is certainly not based on "history."

BillCarr wrote:

The past few years the meet referee has been Harry Groves; if that was indeed the case this year . . . . he has the authority to overrule the official who made the call and he didn't. I'd trust him with his ruling - there is no way the meet referee Groves or no Groves was in the same position at Dartmouth when Wyner DQ'd himself. Yesterday's DQ is certainly not based on "history."

Groves was on the jury of appeals. See below.

Meet Manager • Michael Muska

Jury of Appeals • Mel Rosen, Harry Groves, Mark Kostek

Games Committee • Lou Duesing, Peter Farrell, Gwen Harris, Charlie Powell, Fred Samara, Nathan Taylor

Head Referee • Bill Thomson

Field Referees • Ken Yerger, Mark Kostek

Umpires • Norm Lieberman, Michael Hemsley, Marc Zisselman, Andrea Jenning, Carolyn Griggs

Responding to Moral Reasoning comments:

It sucks when the throws aren't close enough to watch

Due to construction on South Street, the throwing events had to be moved to a place that was over a 10 min walk away. The throwing events are usually held right next to the stadium by the South Street bridge.

Oliver ran the ballsiest prelim I'd ever seen in the 800, a day before running the ballsiest 800 final I've ever seen, not to mention making it stick and pulling off the win. Props.

I thought he was a rabbit. It was an awesome race.

Speaking of unsportsmanlike conduct, does sitting on your teammate until the last 200 of a 10k (in which you two are at least 100m ahead of our teammate in 3rd), and then blowing her doors off by cranking home as hard as you can sportsmanlike?

It's called she had too much left in the tank and she wanted to finish strong, and possibly improve upon her regional qualifying time. Probably also practicing her methods for ECACs and regionals. Unfortunately, she did not.

Did Karma get her back in the 5k?

Richardson had a better kick than Cummings. Same with the indoors 3K.

Princeton also protested Amirault's fall. They subsequently lost the meet.

The margin of Cornell's win was greater than the deficit if Princeton won the protest by getting Miller out as well. It would not have made an impact on the standings.

Maduka isn't invincible. That makes me even more of a fan of her. May she get healthy.

Why, has she been sick or injured? She hasn't run the 100 or 200 at all this outdoor season so far, ran the 4x1 once prior to Heps, and had been focusing on LJ and TJ. She has not competed since the beginning of April. A theory was going on around that she had been focusing on med school stuff, but no one knows for sure...

It's cool to see Harvard collecting some young talent in the 400s and Wieler.

Also in the throws, distance, men sprints, and women multis. There is better recruiting going on now under the new coaches.

BillCarr wrote:

The past few years the meet referee has been Harry Groves; if that was indeed the case this year . . . . he has the authority to overrule the official who made the call and he didn't. I'd trust him with his ruling - there is no way the meet referee Groves or no Groves was in the same position at Dartmouth when Wyner DQ'd himself. Yesterday's DQ is certainly not based on "history."

Bill it was Harry, Mel Rosen and Mark Kostek who made the decision.

Is anyone else able to see hepstrack.com today? I try to link to it and I'm getting a Word Press login page... was curious if it was just me.