Almaz Ayana speaks!

Scorpion_runner wrote:

El Keniano wrote:

^ So out of interest, Scorpion Runner. Is Beatrice clean because she puts herself out in the circuit racing frequently or a doper because she smashed a doped world record? Also, she's Kenyan and we know they're all dirty because Asbel Kiprop, Jemima Sumgong, Rita Jeptoo and Kipyegon Bett (as well as Bahraini Kenyans Ruth Jebet and Violah Jepchumbah), right?

Notice how the Lance Armstrongs and Marion Joneses of this world don't tarnish the American running the way Kenya's elites (Eliud says they're about 5000) have to explain for the cheaters in their midst. Interesting such blanket generalisations coming from an African American who should know better given first hand experience with profiling and stereotypes in the U.S.

And for the record, there's nothing out there to suggest Almaz Ayana is dirty. Her only crime is that she's a lot faster than your favourites.

Good lord, you are pulling the race card?

I don't give a care as to what color or planet a runner is from, a doper is doper.

And you are wrong americans are tarnished. Lance Armstrong's career is beyond tarnished. He was banned for life. His medals stripped, and he is being sued, and was forced to return his earnings. Marion Jones tarnished. Gatlin is not liked or respected by most americans and american runners.

And don't even get me started on NOP and Galen Rupp, they are not celebrated. When Galen and Hasay do great things, do you see any support from americans like you do with other american runners? No

And the sport of american baseball and football have been put on blast by americans for being dirty.

However, all the kenyans who were banned will get a chance to run again.

You are way off course here.

Awsi Dooger wrote:

Free your mind bro wrote:

Completely agree. Your posts on Ayana are noticeably worse than any of your other posts. Hate is clouding your mind..

No, let him continue. Always good for a belly laugh when it comes to Almaz Ayana. He was so stupid in his recent appraisal of Hill Run's posts about the knee surgery in Switzerland that he asserted it had to be an invention. I responded that only a fool wouldn't recognize the legitimacy, due to all the specifics that otherwise couldn't be known and certainly wouldn't be invented out of cloth.

Now we have official statement including mention of knee surgery in Switzerland. Whoops.

And it gets even better. Now he thinks the picture posted had to have been taken on exactly the same day it was posted. Sheer brilliance.

Loudmouth simpleton who finds a bias, isn't smart enough to let go, and takes it to extreme after extreme, steadily making a caricature of himself. Very familiar.

Aussiestatman wrote:

Hill Run wrote:

Well I’m certainly not going to sit here and defend your doping allegations towards her - for the simple reason that I have never met her! You purporting that she is definitely doping is as equally unprovable as me alleging she is definitely clean. - Which narrative you adopt depends Simply upon which side of the fence you sit. - I do notice however, that those who consistently allege doping are generally not well reaearched in the particular athlete. I have no issue with individuals holding strong and negative opinions. - But at least do your homework first, -speak from both the head and the heart.

As for beating a doped up record at her first attempt. - Again that’s your prerogative. I believe the women’s 10k record prior to Ayana was the weakest on the books. - You can not compare the female 10000m record in the same manner as say the men’s 100m record. - Records are not all equal, or even within the same ballpark. For example, the last international track 10k with all the “names” was run in August 2017. The only comparative event since would be the 10000m at the commonwealth games in March - Sure Kenya was there, but not the USA, not Ethiopia, no European countries.

How many other international track meets are run with such scarcity?

Nobody went after Wangs record - and Dibaba is on record confirming this. Simply because the big 10k races were held at world and Olympic championships where times were a distant second in importance to tactical execution & racing. We all know from her own confession no less, that Wang Junxia was doped. Ma Juren had them doing totally insane,inhuman and unsustainable workouts, for one purpose only, the Chinese champs and the setting of world records. It was basically a one time only deal. Wang Junxia to me is an example of what drugs and crazy training can do with what was in my opinion an athlete of average international ability. - She was turned into a “super soldier” for a short unsustainable period. Almaz Ayana is the diametric opposite. A massive natural front running talent, a lady who has the ability (and who also had to develop this ability) to destroy other runners in the main body of the race. No records will ever be set at the female 5 and 10k distances using tactical methods of racing.

All Ayana has done is throw historical protocols of race practice out of the window. What she does is “unprecedented” only to other athletes and observers. - But not to her, she has always run this way.

No european countries in the commonwealth? What about the four countries that make up Britain. Plus some Channel Islands and Gibraltar? Among these minnows there may be enough quality 10k runners to match your USA talent

Subway Surfers wrote:

El Keniano wrote:

^ So out of interest, Scorpion Runner. Is Beatrice clean because she puts herself out in the circuit racing frequently or a doper because she smashed a doped world record? Also, she's Kenyan and we know they're all dirty because Asbel Kiprop, Jemima Sumgong, Rita Jeptoo and Kipyegon Bett (as well as Bahraini Kenyans Ruth Jebet and Violah Jepchumbah), right? ✔

Notice how the Lance Armstrongs and Marion Joneses of this world don't tarnish the American running the way Kenya's elites (Eliud says they're about 5000) have to explain for the cheaters in their midst. Interesting such blanket generalisations coming from an African American who should know better given first hand experience with profiling and stereotypes in the U.S.

And for the record, there's nothing out there to suggest Almaz Ayana is dirty. Her only crime is that she's a lot faster than your favourites.

BTW Armstrong was a cyclist, during an era when cyclists all around the world were on some heavy cocktails. Jones was a sprinter/jumper both were exposed. If Kenyan or Ethiopian investigators went and raided some of these "training camps" There would a lot more high profile busts of the Armstrong & Jones stature.

The fact that you are not suspicious of Ayana tells me that you don't know much about the sport or exercise physiology.

epo-almaz wrote:

Hffgv wrote:

Yea??!

What do you have to say to the fact that in that race, besides Ayana’s WR, 18 runners had a PB with in them 7 NR an AR (of your mistress huddle), Cheruiyot was only 1 sec away from that Chinese WR, and Dibaba who used to run many 10k races also had a PB of 29:42? They were all doped too?

That makes your argument a bit weak, not to say stupid.

You might want to open your eyes every once in awhile. If you are in an Olympic final, chances are high you are doped. Take the women's 1500 in London for example, 6 of the top 9 have been busted for doping. In Ethiopia you can buy epo at the pharmacy no questions asked across the street from to the national stadium. Jama Aden caught with a boat load of epo and steroids in Spain... If you are not even a little suspicious of Ayana then you have your head in the sand or are blinded by nationalism.

zcxvzxcv wrote:

If you look at that athletics integrity list of recent suspensions, you see that Russia's doping program involved everyone, that Ukraine and Belarus (whose athletics is headed by a guy caught doping at least three times, though CAS overturned two of them somehow) have terrible doping problems, and that Kenya has the worst known doping program outside of the former Soviet Bloc. Ethiopia remains under the radar because little or no testing goes on in country.

I was trying to post yesterday about Almaz Ayana. This is someone who is represented by, guess who?, yes, Jos Hermens, like Bekele and Beatrice. Ayana was a mediocre steepler for years (best of 9:22), before shifting to 3k/5k and being almost immediately great. After running times like 9:22/9:27 as her best times of the year in the steeple a few times, she ran 14:25. She had been an 8:40s 3k runner. Then she runs 14:12. I believe that her doping began in May-June 2013, between yet another mediocre steeple and that great 5000m race in July 2013.

She was born in November 1991. In 2009, she ran a 10: 03 steeple, in 2010 at almost 19, she ran 9:22 steeple, then at close to age 20 was an 8:53 3k runner (in Rabat) and 15:12 5000m, like a good American collegian maybe, then in Germany in 2012, close to age 21, ran 8:49 3k, still slower than Hasay in or just after college, and she ran 14:58 in Brussels, solid but still 46 seconds off the world record and even at the time about 14 seconds off the American record, a second under what Jenny Simpson ran. In 2013, short of her 22nd birthday, she ran 8:44 in Dakar. However, conditions may have been difficult, and she ran 14:25 in Paris in July. Obviously after a few years she then ran 14:12 and 29:17, which are comparable performances. But the 29:17 was in warm conditions and she ran 14:47 for the first half, already good for an astonishing time, and then 14:30 for the second half. There is no way in my mind that this athlete is clean.

From a 538 article in 2016 after the 10k:

"I asked Ross Tucker, a professor of exercise physiology at the University of the Free State in South Africa, about his impressions of the record. By email, he said: “Who knows. You can’t condemn an athlete as a doper based on a stopwatch alone, wouldn’t be fair. However, the context matters — we know that Ethiopia have a nonexistent testing programme, and that they warn athletes when testers are coming for samples.”

Tucker said that while Ayana broke the 10K record by a similar margin as other world records falling this summer, this is different because of the tainted nature of Wang’s previously untouchable mark.

Earlier this year, the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) and International Association of Athletics Federations (IAAF) threatened to ban Ethiopia from international track competition because of substandard testing. The country suspended three runners in March of this year while investigating three others, with an undisclosed number being investigated separately by IAAF. It was required to test between 150 and 200 athletes by November — notably after the Olympics — and improve its testing facilities, which received a rating of “zero” from WADA."

zcxvzxcv wrote:

If you look at that athletics integrity list of recent suspensions, you see that Russia's doping program involved everyone, that Ukraine and Belarus (whose athletics is headed by a guy caught doping at least three times, though CAS overturned two of them somehow) have terrible doping problems, and that Kenya has the worst known doping program outside of the former Soviet Bloc. Ethiopia remains under the radar because little or no testing goes on in country.

I was trying to post yesterday about Almaz Ayana. This is someone who is represented by, guess who?, yes, Jos Hermens, like Bekele and Beatrice. Ayana was a mediocre steepler for years (best of 9:22), before shifting to 3k/5k and being almost immediately great. After running times like 9:22/9:27 as her best times of the year in the steeple a few times, she ran 14:25. She had been an 8:40s 3k runner. Then she runs 14:12. I believe that her doping began in May-June 2013, between yet another mediocre steeple and that great 5000m race in July 2013.

She was born in November 1991. In 2009, she ran a 10: 03 steeple, in 2010 at almost 19, she ran 9:22 steeple, then at close to age 20 was an 8:53 3k runner (in Rabat) and 15:12 5000m, like a good American collegian maybe, then in Germany in 2012, close to age 21, ran 8:49 3k, still slower than Hasay in or just after college, and she ran 14:58 in Brussels, solid but still 46 seconds off the world record and even at the time about 14 seconds off the American record, a second under what Jenny Simpson ran. In 2013, short of her 22nd birthday, she ran 8:44 in Dakar. However, conditions may have been difficult, and she ran 14:25 in Paris in July. Obviously after a few years she then ran 14:12 and 29:17, which are comparable performances. But the 29:17 was in warm conditions and she ran 14:47 for the first half, already good for an astonishing time, and then 14:30 for the second half. There is no way in my mind that this athlete is clean.

From a 538 article in 2016 after the 10k:

"I asked Ross Tucker, a professor of exercise physiology at the University of the Free State in South Africa, about his impressions of the record. By email, he said: “Who knows. You can’t condemn an athlete as a doper based on a stopwatch alone, wouldn’t be fair. However, the context matters — we know that Ethiopia have a nonexistent testing programme, and that they warn athletes when testers are coming for samples.”

Tucker said that while Ayana broke the 10K record by a similar margin as other world records falling this summer, this is different because of the tainted nature of Wang’s previously untouchable mark.

Earlier this year, the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) and International Association of Athletics Federations (IAAF) threatened to ban Ethiopia from international track competition because of substandard testing. The country suspended three runners in March of this year while investigating three others, with an undisclosed number being investigated separately by IAAF. It was required to test between 150 and 200 athletes by November — notably after the Olympics — and improve its testing facilities, which received a rating of “zero” from WADA."

Scorpion_runner wrote:

zcxvzxcv wrote:

If you look at that athletics integrity list of recent suspensions, you see that Russia's doping program involved everyone, that Ukraine and Belarus (whose athletics is headed by a guy caught doping at least three times, though CAS overturned two of them somehow) have terrible doping problems, and that Kenya has the worst known doping program outside of the former Soviet Bloc. Ethiopia remains under the radar because little or no testing goes on in country.

I was trying to post yesterday about Almaz Ayana. This is someone who is represented by, guess who?, yes, Jos Hermens, like Bekele and Beatrice. Ayana was a mediocre steepler for years (best of 9:22), before shifting to 3k/5k and being almost immediately great. After running times like 9:22/9:27 as her best times of the year in the steeple a few times, she ran 14:25. She had been an 8:40s 3k runner. Then she runs 14:12. I believe that her doping began in May-June 2013, between yet another mediocre steeple and that great 5000m race in July 2013.

She was born in November 1991. In 2009, she ran a 10: 03 steeple, in 2010 at almost 19, she ran 9:22 steeple, then at close to age 20 was an 8:53 3k runner (in Rabat) and 15:12 5000m, like a good American collegian maybe, then in Germany in 2012, close to age 21, ran 8:49 3k, still slower than Hasay in or just after college, and she ran 14:58 in Brussels, solid but still 46 seconds off the world record and even at the time about 14 seconds off the American record, a second under what Jenny Simpson ran. In 2013, short of her 22nd birthday, she ran 8:44 in Dakar. However, conditions may have been difficult, and she ran 14:25 in Paris in July. Obviously after a few years she then ran 14:12 and 29:17, which are comparable performances. But the 29:17 was in warm conditions and she ran 14:47 for the first half, already good for an astonishing time, and then 14:30 for the second half. There is no way in my mind that this athlete is clean.

From a 538 article in 2016 after the 10k:

"I asked Ross Tucker, a professor of exercise physiology at the University of the Free State in South Africa, about his impressions of the record. By email, he said: “Who knows. You can’t condemn an athlete as a doper based on a stopwatch alone, wouldn’t be fair. However, the context matters — we know that Ethiopia have a nonexistent testing programme, and that they warn athletes when testers are coming for samples.”

Tucker said that while Ayana broke the 10K record by a similar margin as other world records falling this summer, this is different because of the tainted nature of Wang’s previously untouchable mark.

Earlier this year, the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) and International Association of Athletics Federations (IAAF) threatened to ban Ethiopia from international track competition because of substandard testing. The country suspended three runners in March of this year while investigating three others, with an undisclosed number being investigated separately by IAAF. It was required to test between 150 and 200 athletes by November — notably after the Olympics — and improve its testing facilities, which received a rating of “zero” from WADA."

Who are you in real life? I would like to know. Thank you for providing such great information, and thank you for your clear, direct, thorough honesty. This is what running is about, doing the research and acknowledging what is real and what isn't.

I will try to remember your user name. True knowledge of track and field.