Changing Cadence and Stride Length -questions

Thanks for the feedback, I also sent it to a few friends and the consensus seems to be the same. My first focus was activating the glutes (wasn't happening in the original video) now I'll work on posture a bit more.

I'm done with trying to change cadence, you are absolutely right because when I'm running 5:30 pace my cadence all of a sudden reached 177, so it doesn't really matter if my cadence is mid 160's for 8:00 pace.

This is the first time my form hasn't been called bad so that's encouraging. But anyone reading this who also wants to improve their form the key is patience, I've had to cut down my mileage and it feels like I'm new to running (obviously without the cardio challenges) as I'm using different muscles while running.

Hoping this thread leads to some fast race results.

Treadmills are tough because I suspect your form is different when your on the roads, but your upper body seemed to be more of an issue than your lower body. The left arm seems to have a strange circuitous route and also seems to thrust out way ahead of you. I can't quite nail exactly what the issue is off a quick view, but my guy tells me your arms need to change first and your legs, which generally seem fine, will follow.

Smoove wrote:

Treadmills are tough because I suspect your form is different when your on the roads, but your upper body seemed to be more of an issue than your lower body. The left arm seems to have a strange circuitous route and also seems to thrust out way ahead of you. I can't quite nail exactly what the issue is off a quick view, but my guy tells me your arms need to change first and your legs, which generally seem fine, will follow.

Thanks Smoove, it's been a major project getting my legs to where they are I will focus on cleaning the arm swing next along with keeping my head further back as apparently I'm hunched forward.

You guys don't know how happy it makes me to hear this feedback about my legs!!

I figured I'd post the latest video update of my running form. I've been taking all of the helpful advice and feedback on here and trying to incorporate it into improving my form.

https://youtu.be/ERj2R_HZT3Q

Any feedback of the latest form is greatly appreciated. As a side note I am experiencing some aches and pains from this new form, the bottom of my feet, calves, right Achilles' tendon, and IT bands are hurting, I hope my body is just adjusting to the new form?

I didn't realize how low the quality was of the video so my apologies, hopefully this one is better.

At 5-9 165 I was 3.7% body fat. At 185 pounds I was under 10%. To get down to the weights you are suggesting the OP is going to have to lose muscle.

Peter Snell was 5-10.5 and 175 pounds or so. He is possibly the greatest middle distance runner of all-time. Perhaps OP should switch to shorter events.

The pains are normal, although the Achilles is troubling. Watch it carefully.

I've suggested the "Elbows back" drill, but one of your friends suggested you focus on the arm downswing. Try that too. Sometimes, thinking about a different part of the arm motion creates the aha moment when it feels right.

Ideally, your next step would be to try your new form at mile or 5k goal pace. I would suggest the Billat 30-30 workout, especially if you can run outdoors or at an indoor track. After warming up, you would practice your new form at mile or 5k race pace for 30 seconds, then jog slowly with your normal form for 30 seconds, then repeat the process. Start with only 4 reps and then stop and walk to see how you feel. If you don't have Achilles pain, do another set of 4. The slow jog should be really slow. You can even walk if you find yourself having trouble holding the new form for 30 seconds.

I teach this workout to adult runners to help them improve their efficiency at faster speeds, since many recreational runners seldom run faster than marathon pace, but they tend to get hurt if they jump directly into interval workouts.

You can do this on a treadmill, but you'll need to add extra time to speed up and slow down the treadmill, so maybe 40 seconds. The recovery can be as long as you need to run the next rep in good form... say one minute to 90 seconds.

Gradually, you increase the volume in this workout. There is no need to increase speed faster than mile race pace. For example, when coming back from an MCL injury, I first ran 1 set of 8x30(30) on my first day back on the track. The next week I ran 2 sets of 8x30(30). The next week, 17x30/30 and then 26x30/30.

At this point, you're doing Billats AS A DRILL, but eventually, you'll be able to do it as an interval workout. As a workout, you would run 30 seconds at mile race pace or slightly faster, then jog 30 seconds at half that speed, then repeat until you can no longer hold mile race pace for 30 seconds. Your goal is 20 to 24 reps.

If you do Billats on a track, you can measure weekly progress by tracking how far you run in a specific number of reps. You could also do it with a Garmin on the road.

Joe's Gym wrote:

At 5-9 165 I was 3.7% body fat. At 185 pounds I was under 10%. To get down to the weights you are suggesting the OP is going to have to lose muscle.

Peter Snell was 5-10.5 and 175 pounds or so. He is possibly the greatest middle distance runner of all-time. Perhaps OP should switch to shorter events.

I don't disagree with what you are saying, in college my best event was the 1500M so my build is certainly more suited for that. Maybe I'll really attack the 5K long term but short term my goal is to break 1:20 in a half...PR right now is 1:20:28 from a few years ago...hoping that the new more efficient form makes the difference or should I try the Vaporfly?

I'm seeing my PT on Wednesday so hopefully that can alleviate some of these issues. I agree that the Achilles is the most troubling, it will all of a sudden get tender in the middle of a slow run like yesterday so I carefully jogged it back in.

I think I'll try your 30 seconds on, 30 seconds of drill next week if it's nice enough outside to use the track. For example, this week I ran a 5.5 mile tempo at 6:31/pace but like you said this is giving me no experience at mile or 5K race pace with the new form so I really like that idea.

Also, I've never thought that the downswing of the arms helps create power but I'm hoping that visualization helps with a breakthrough on the arms just like I had an aha moment with the legs.

I'd say pain wise the IT band is feeling the worst of everything as it seem S to be sore every run but I'm attributing that to the new leg motion.

Thanks again, I'll keep working hard and try to get some results later is year st of all of that.

To the other poster, I do think it's reasonable to say I can lose 15-20 lbs and get to 185-190 but anything more than that would be very hard to do. I just can't imagine being able to weight around 160 lbs as I definitely don't have 45 lbs of fat on me.

* Results later this year so that all of this work pays off