My Journey to Sub 16 5K, Including My Training Logs. Need all the help I can get

George used his method to crack 20 for the first time. Take him up on his offer.

So here is my perspective of what my training to run in the 15's and sometimes the 14's looks like. I am 35 years old and live at 6200 feet, so my running is most likely a little different then someone that lives at lower altitude. Understand that I do not train like most people do as I refuse to run track workouts, I run what most consider hard most if not all of the time and have changed my training very little over the last 10 years.

When I run a "Workout" I usually go by minutes, such as this- 1,2,3,2,1,2,3,2,1 with half recovery. I tend to run the recovery at a decent pace.

I use the treadmill for many runs, and tend to really push the pace. Sometimes I will run 3x3 miles on the treadmill, going around 14:40, 14:47 and usually about 15:00 on the last one. Sometimes I just run hard for 10 miles and use the last two as a slight cool down. You can vary the workouts you do on the treadmill quite a bit and you can change pace often to work on nailing down faster paced running. Variation is the key here as well as knowing how far your body can be pushed on the treadmill.

As far as mileage, I have basically run about 80 miles a week for 8 or so years, and my first 3 years were spent just getting back into running from a 2 year break (2000 to March of 2002). I run most of my miles around 6:00 pace and frequently will do 12 mile runs from 5:30 to 5:50 pace. I have done it for so many years that it has become the norm for me. I also try to race as much as I can during the year, and set my goal to be in 15 minute shape from January to December. I don't know if this is of much help, but use what you like and if you have questions I will answer them.

Iliac wrote:

George used his method to crack 20 for the first time. Take him up on his offer.

Is he going to scale the method for me to crack 16? I'll accept his offer as long as I can run the races (the 5k this month and turkey trot next month, idk about the one in December)

In the meantime,

Yesterday, I did 15 x 300m with 200m jog recovery. (Basically 60-90s between)

Here's how it went:

First, a 15 minute 2 mile warm up

300m Splits: (for reference: 1:00 = 5:20/mi pace)

1.) 1:02

2.) 0:58

3.) 0:58

4.) 0:58

5.) 0:59

6.) 0:58

7.) 0:57

8.) 0:59

9.) 1:00

10.) 0:58

11.) 1:00

12.) 1:01

13.) 0:59

14.) 1:00

15.) 0:54

Done around 4 pm on the track. It was pretty hot out.

The last four reps, the workout started to get quite tough, and I walked 100 jogged 100 between those last four instead of 200m jog. Aside from that, what do you think of this?

I think u need to get in to longer intervals. 3x1000m or 6 x 800m. To improve your pace. And rhythm.

Sub16_5k wrote:

....

Ok, but first, have you tried this with anyone else before? Did it work for them? I'm willing to do it, but I want to know that your method works, before I begin, and I won't question it beyond that.

Yes, it is tested on 3 people, with 100% positive results.

This year so far was tested on 5 cycles (6-7 weeks each cycle).

The most successful was to break 20:00, as someone else said (joking probably), for a 37 years old guy....in 4 months, getting down to 18:00.

But is not just the performance, is the experience. As someone said after finishing a cycle, "...I really enjoy running".

So should we start?

George Ilie wrote:

Sub16_5k wrote:

....

Ok, but first, have you tried this with anyone else before? Did it work for them? I'm willing to do it, but I want to know that your method works, before I begin, and I won't question it beyond that.

Yes, it is tested on 3 people, with 100% positive results.

This year so far was tested on 5 cycles (6-7 weeks each cycle).

The most successful was to break 20:00, as someone else said (joking probably), for a 37 years old guy....in 4 months, getting down to 18:00.

But is not just the performance, is the experience. As someone said after finishing a cycle, "...I really enjoy running".

So should we start?

Sure, what the heck, I'll do it.

One thing though... Can I still run my local Turkey trot during the cycle? (And the one in Halloween?) It's a big race and they have it once a year.

I've same goal as you. Today I did 4x4 min w/4 min rest @3.15 min/km. I think that's equivalent to 16:30 5K.

briadway wrote:

I've same goal as you. Today I did 4x4 min w/4 min rest @3.15 min/km. I think that's equivalent to 16:30 5K.

With 4 minutes recovery between reps totaling16 minutes of 16:15 pace work, I'm not quite sure you're ready for 16:30, but you likely aren't far (assuming you're rested up for the race and not the workout).

George specifically said that you can run the two races in his initial post.

I don't mean to speak for George, but there is a certain requirement of focus and attention to detail (on your part) implied in his offer. Read his questions again, carefully.

times too wrote:

briadway wrote:

I've same goal as you. Today I did 4x4 min w/4 min rest @3.15 min/km. I think that's equivalent to 16:30 5K.

With 4 minutes recovery between reps totaling16 minutes of 16:15 pace work, I'm not quite sure you're ready for 16:30, but you likely aren't far (assuming you're rested up for the race and not the workout).

That sounds like a stretch for 5k, yea. Unless the workout felt almost easy. It's got quite a bit of recovery in there. That's kinda standard VO2 max rest:recovery, which is usually more like 3k type pace.

As for the thread, I do rather hope this happens. It would be quite interesting to see a round of virtual coaching done this out in the open for everyone to observe.

Sub16_5k wrote:

...

Sure, what the heck, I'll do it.

One thing though... Can I still run my local Turkey trot during the cycle? (And the one in Halloween?) It's a big race and they have it once a year.

Let's do it then.

The races will be part of your training, meaning no taper, but recovery after them.

First, I have a few questions:

1. What was your weekly mileage in the past 4 weeks?

2. What is your comfortable pace? The one you run in most of the slow/steady runs.

3. Where do you run mostly? Track, road, etc.

4. Do you have hills in your route?

5. Do you have strength work in your usual training?

6. What is your 5k shape now?

Until Monday we can set up the next week's training, but I need the above information.

There is a lot of information which we need to share, so we have to take it step by step.

I give things a week before weather or sleep interferes and the pupil starts to get combative.

I've been in your boat the last 6-7 years. I've run between 1548 and 1605 a dozen times in that period.

My last workout was a four mile tempo cutting down from 548 to 521, basically your 2x2 mile without the rest.

And I'm not in 15:xx shape. More like 1615.

The key will be consistency and making 505 pace feel "comfortable." You'll also need to understand pacing. The last time I broke 16, my fastest mile was 503. Only once in my 8 sub 16s have I run a mile faster than 5 minutes. for you, the perfect splits may be something like 5:00, 5:10, 5:10. The middle mile will b etough.

1.) My last 4 weeks goes as follows:

Last week: 42 miles

10/3-10/9: 12 miles

9/26-10/2: 41 miles

9/19-9/25: 35 miles

Working on 50 this week but now I'm coming down with a cold. Look at my first post (and log) in this thread for more details

2.) Usually around 7:10-7:40/mi, really depends on things like how I feel, weather, etc. take a look at my log from the first post. On my typical 60 min (8 mile) runs, I start around 7:40-7:50 and finish from 6:40-7:10 again depends on several factors. Long runs are same but I go out slower (8:00-8:10) and finish under 7 min pace.

3.) On the road the majority of the time, but on my high school's track for speed, like I did this week with the 300s. Other than that, yeah, mostly road.

4.) Nope, That's Southwest Florida for ya, but there is a hilly area (Marco Island) but it's a long drive.

5.) Yes, several times a week I do a boot camp where they have us do plyometrics, power such as short sprints, push-ups, flipping tires, and lots of ab work such as mountain climbers, crunches, sit-ups, planks, leg work such as squats, lunges and much more. I have to say it's actually helped me quite a bit.

6.) I don't know. I felt with 6:15/mi being piss easy for 45 min (finishing with 5:40) I should've been under 16:15 but when I did one race 2 weeks ago (again, in my log, first post here) I just can't hold sub 5:20 pace for longer than a mile or so, let alone 4:50. That pace is tough but I assume it's since I've ran so many long slow miles and never quite did speed this whole year. Now that I think of it, I haven't worked on my 4:40-5:30 pace range in a long time. Could that be why? My fitness indicates I should be able to (resting HR of 37 this week for example. I did 18:00 5k back in March this year. My resting HR was around 45-49 During that time)

Interesting thread since sub 16 5K is also my ambition for late 2017.

I'll be glad to follow your progress.

Next week I'll be running a Cooper test to assess my VO2Max.

This is the plan for the next two weeks.

Week 43/2016

Mon - SkiErg + elliptical

Tue - Coaching recreational runners (7 km @ E)

Wed - Cooper test (12 min run @3K pace)

Thu - Easy run 45 min @ 5.00-5.20 min/km

Fri - Strength training with own body weight

Sat - 4x300 m/w=3' + 4x200 m/w=2'

Sun - Long run 100 min 5.00-5.20 min/km

Total mileage in km: 48 km

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Week 44/2016

Mon - SkiErg + elliptical

Tue - Coaching recreational runners (7 km @ E)

Wed - 6x1000m/w=1' @5K pace)

Thu - Easy run 45 min @ 5.00-5.20 min/km

Fri - Strength training with own body weight

Sat - 6x400 m/w=75'' + 5x200 m/w=60''

Sun - Long run 105 min 5.00-5.20 min/km

Total mileage in km: 51 km

Feel free to critique my training plan.

12 minute run @ 3k pace?! That's longer than 3k, haha. I guess you said you're targeting late 2017 so maybe your current 3k pace is slower than 4m/k. Is that a Daniels thing? I remember in my coaching days being a part of a program that basically did 10 minutes all out at the start of the season.

The training schedule looks alright to me, though I'm curious if your in your developmental stage in training life or if you're an old has-been (sorry, never-was) like me. If it's the former, then I think you should try to have a little more tempo work.

It's starting to cool off here so I'm going to try to roll pretty well the last 8 miles of my long run tomorrow. Good luck with training fellas.

Resting heart rate is no reflection of racing ability.

The test is 12 min long

https://www.brianmac.co.uk/mobile//gentest.htm

I think I could run @ 3.20 min/km for 12 minutes (3200 m=2 miles).

My running 'career' is only 2.5 years old and I've had a lot of problems with injuries. I've been lacking consistency but hopefully I'm on the right path with gradual increase in mileage. Good luck to you too.

* Correction, 3600 m in 12 min if the pace is 3.20 min/km (5:22 min/mile).