I think that you and I have only very slight points where we do not agree. I too, think that too much emphasis is put on the here-and-now, and not enough to ensure taht the athlets will be running well ten years down the road. There are many lessons to be learned.
WHY DO YALL HAVE TO HATE ON KEN.THE GUY WON THE NATIONAL XC CHAMPIONSHIPS. HE WORKED HIS ASS OFF AND BELIVED IN HIM SELF. WHO GIVES A FLYING F*** WHO DOES MORE MILAGE OR WHO WILL RECRUIT WHO. NONE OF YOU HAVE WON THE DAMN THING OR ELSE YOU WOULD BE OUT TRAINING AND NOT TALKING SHIT. SHUT UP AND SUPPORT THE GUY FOR DOING SOMETHING YOU HAVEN'T.
YOU THE MAN KENNY!
WAY TO REP AZ
PEACE
i know a flop when i see one wrote:
I wouldn't be using Chapa as a positive example of how high mileage works.
He had a shortened career bacause he was so messed up from the stupid shit his hs coach, i think he was nicknamed caveman, did to him in hs.
I would also consider what he accomplished after his 28:32 in hs a dissapointment.
Another thing, if the mielage is so good for you at a young age, whatever happened to his hs teammates that were also under 9:00.
The bottom line is that Chapa's hs coach ruined a great talent.
Dan Candiano was the coach and Chapa, Pinkowski and Keogh were the three athletes from the same school who all went under 9:00 in the Two Mile.
While Rudy Chapa didn't have a great international career, he did break the University of Oregon's school 10K record in 1977 and 5K record in 1979 & was also Pac-8 1500 meter champion in 1978 and Pac-10 1500 meter champion in 1979. Nice versatility. I think he would have had a shot at the Olympics if Carter hadn't boycotted the 1980 Olympics and I believe he was injured when the 1984 Olympics rolled around. So while you might deem Chapa to have been a disappointment, I think he turned out alright.
Carey Pinkowski attended Villanova and ended his collegiate career as a Three-time All-American in track & cross country and a member of a collegiate record 4 x 1500 meter relay team and indoor track record holder for 5K. Doesn't sound too ruined to me.
Of all of them, Tim Keogh had the most disappointing time after running, but much of that has been blamed on his not running the summer after his senior year of track as opposed to him putting in too much mileage.
Just some observations.
>>>NONE OF YOU HAVE WON THE DAMN THING OR ELSE YOU WOULD BE OUT TRAINING AND NOT TALKING SHIT.
Never thought winning a a HS XC was the criteria for having an educated opinion. Talent doesn't equal knowledge. Some of the great coaches were average athletes and in many cases they had to think about what they were doing to maximise their potential too be competitive (the key to coaching...maximising an athlete's career potential whether they are good or average, not just statistical success with talented runers). Hence they learn alot.
From a general point of view there are lot's of HS champions, they're everywhere but how many of them are champions 10 years down the track...that's the test.
On the other hand from the kids personal point of view great effort, well done and a deserving success after alot of work. Let's hope he continues to perform at the same standard.
My days of winning any HS XC went out the window 30 years ago. Probably now, couldn't run out of site on a dark night. Good thing I'm coaching instead.
to all those who see high mileage in hs as something that ruins high school talent and US distance running prospects......
how many international distance running medals have we gotten in the past 10 years..?
VERY FEW!
We should be trying new things, i.e. high mileage training
obviousy the 120 mpw worked for ken, and if he continues high mileage training all he needs to do is slowly increase the intensity of his runs for an improvement
-South and Sunny
i think you all take running way too seriously.
It has worked for now...short term! Still only HS. HS is great to win but not that important in the larger scheme of things. IMHO only, and I'm only speaking generally here as there are exceptions, after gradually building up mileage to 17, mileage should expotentially start to rise alot more quickly at 18 when the body's developed and ready for it. The biggest rise in mileage during the career being between 18-22, which by then you're running most of you volume and intensity you'd expect to do over a career. Then just smaller gradual increases from there. Hopefully then, because your body is strong enough to handle it you can go on and have a great career into your 30's. Problem is most HS and college's have burned alot of runners well before then despite the high number of those runners we have marvelled at during that period.
There's another $0.02 worth. Other thoughts too would be interesting to hear as well.
i know a flop when i see one wrote:
I wouldn't be using Chapa as a positive example of how high mileage works.
He had a shortened career bacause he was so messed up from the stupid shit his hs coach, i think he was nicknamed caveman, did to him in hs.
I would also consider what he accomplished after his 28:32 in hs a dissapointment.
Another thing, if the mielage is so good for you at a young age, whatever happened to his hs teammates that were also under 9:00.
The bottom line is that Chapa's hs coach ruined a great talent.
chapa set the american collegiate record in the 3000 at oregon...
who cares if ken ran a 120 mile week. he won the american high school cross country championchips(unofficial name) do you think kenenisa bekele was worried about not doing high milage when he won the world cross country championchips when he was younger than kenny cormier?
umm wrote:
He may have run "only" a 15:22 5k, but in the process he beat, amongst others, a 4:06 miler, an 8:51 2miler, an 8:54 2 miler, and every other "good" high school runner in the country.
Just for the extra effect...he actually beat an 849 and 850 2milers.
>>> who cares if ken ran a 120 mile week. he won the american high school cross country championchips(unofficial name) do you think kenenisa bekele was worried about not doing high milage when he won the world cross country championchips when he was younger than kenny cormier?
Don't worry about the one or two that make it through, it's the 1000's that crash and burn in the process. HS champions, there a dime a dozen, fantastic to win, but means jackshit in the larger scheme of things. It still just school XC. It when they're challenging for real USATF titles and beyond is when it matters, and very few HS/College athletes seem to get that far. You have to ask why.
It all depends on the runner himself. Let him train high mileage if he can take it and wants it! Tim keough didn't pan out as a high mileage guy? Ralph Serna (one of my favorites, but justto use as an example) really didn't go far internationally either although his coach specifically held him back for that reason.
Chapa burned out early? Eric Reytnolds (low mileage) ?
Cormier 1st and Bumby 2nd high mileage..Matusak 3rd low mileage.
Who knows who will go on and who will stop. Low mileage is no guarantee any young HS runner will be saved for anything.
Don't hold any hs runner back.
Just curious, but what exactly is the formula for a great international runner? It seems to me that the great American runners right now have come from all sorts of different backgrounds. It is pretty obvious that most people "crash and burn" but was anyone here actually touting Kenny as the next great white hope? No. The thing that seperates the international caliber runners from the HS champs is a combination of two extremely intangible things: drive and talent. Kenny's talent seems to be durability and doing 120 miles a week certainly takes drive. Maybe that'll work out for him, maybe not, but only time will tell. Your "0.02" are easy to afford for a reason, you haven't said anything enlightening whatsoever.
Brief forays into high mileage are actually good for a developing teenage runner. OTOH, staying high all the time will often produce the best results at the high school level, but this may come at a small expense later in life.
This isn't to discourage a high schooler from going high on occasion. 120 miles in a single week (barring injury) is almost certainly going to help a teenager who is already accustomed to 17-mile days in shorter blocks (2-5 days) or who has done a 105-mile week in the past.
High school runners are generally light and recover quickly (and boys have a surplus of testosterone at that age, which makes it easier to handle a heavy workload), so it might feel easy for awhile to keep the big mileage weeks rolling. But it's best for future development to have a short excursion into high mileage, followed by a very low segment, then a return to normal mileage levels.
What are good "normal" levels for a high school Senior? Probably around 70-75 per week for boys and 55-60 for girls (provided this level has been attained safely during previous seasons).
It also depends on what the goals are. Many runners have no aspiration to compete in college or beyond in more than a recreational capacity. For these runners, maxing out in high school might not be that bad, and being part of a state (or national) championship team would unquestionably be the highlight of most people's careers. Schools like York and The Woodlands come to mind as schools with deep, rich traditions of championships. These guys do a lot of miles, which might cost a little for the future. But if you were an average high school runner with less-than-stellar talent and no aspirations for world records, wouldn't you want to make the elite seven at York and be a part of a coveted championship?
And guess what.
Maybe that "average" high school guy will go farther with what he thought was modest talent as a result of his early success, disciplined habits, and the inspiration gained from his state championship than he would have gone by settling for mediocrity.
Surely there are African runners who do too much too early in life (or do it too hard), just as there are Westerners who meet the same fate. We never hear about them. But, in general, the serious runners who bank the big miles are the ones who will shine when the final results are in. To prepare for high mileage, push the boundaries out with short blocks of a few high days, then gradually progress to high weeks, then to high months. The high school years are not too soon to begin this process.
Chapa's high school coach was the athletic director at my school my senior year. I was a solid runner (9:36 3200) my junior year so he took to laying out a plan for me. 2 workouts a day, 5/6 morning runs were fartlek, 2 easy runs a week (2 hours), 100 miles. He gave me a workout telling me to do 40 x 400 in 70 seconds each with a 200 jog in between. Why did Chapa burn out again?????
PumaRunner wrote:
Chapa's high school coach was the athletic director at my school my senior year. I was a solid runner (9:36 3200) my junior year so he took to laying out a plan for me. 2 workouts a day, 5/6 morning runs were fartlek, 2 easy runs a week (2 hours), 100 miles. He gave me a workout telling me to do 40 x 400 in 70 seconds each with a 200 jog in between. Why did Chapa burn out again?????
Between your 9:40 2mile and a sub 9 minute 2mile.
Bump