Henry Carr once held the WR in the 220. I think he could make the A heat. Mel Renfro (Dallas/Oregon) also probably belongs in the meet, since ran on their relay and also long jumped 26 feet in about 1960. I don't remember; do you have James Lofton on there?
So what should I do to people who swear that Bo Jackson ran a 4.1? Bo coulda been a world class sprinter but didn't because of the money.
Remember, I'm talking to simpletons here. Is there a simple way to explain that 40 times are bullshit?
Ghost of Ashenfelter wrote:
Henry Carr once held the WR in the 220. I think he could make the A heat. Mel Renfro (Dallas/Oregon) also probably belongs in the meet, since ran on their relay and also long jumped 26 feet in about 1960. I don't remember; do you have James Lofton on there?
I know James Lofton. He's not here as he's a long sprinter and long jumper (yes, he still competes in track). He ran 20.5 for 200 and was a 27-low long jumper at Stanford. He was once NCAA champion in the long jump a couple of years before Carl Lewis came up.
BTW, there was a masters 4X4 a couple of years ago in which two of the members of the team were Willie Gault and Billy "White Shoes" Johnson. Both are presently competing in the 100.
strategery wrote:
So what should I do to people who swear that Bo Jackson ran a 4.1? Bo coulda been a world class sprinter but didn't because of the money.
Remember, I'm talking to simpletons here. Is there a simple way to explain that 40 times are bullshit?
Bo did run a 4.18. The comparison that might get people's attention is that Charlie Francis says that Ben was timed by one of the NFL teams (I believe this was the Dallas Cowboys) in 3.7. That's the difference: 0.4-0.5 second.
The difference mostly is the difference between automatic (electronic) timing and what the NFL uses. In FAT, the athlete responds to the gun In the NFL, the timing system responds to the athlete. The difference is a matter of human reaction, which, as has already been pointed out, can be as much as 0.5 second.
Two other differences:
(1) In track (FAT) the data is rounded up, so 4.11 becomes 4.2.
(2) NFL uses a 3-point start, and track uses 4 point.
strategery wrote:
So what should I do to people who swear that Bo Jackson ran a 4.1? Bo coulda been a world class sprinter but didn't because of the money.
Remember, I'm talking to simpletons here. Is there a simple way to explain that 40 times are bullshit?
Bo Jackson at one time held his state HS record (Alabama, I think) in the decathlon, so we'd have 9 event marks on him. Yep, 9 -- he already had the record before the 1500, so he didn't run it.
Speed Kills wrote:
I know James Lofton. He's not here as he's a long sprinter and long jumper (yes, he still competes in track). He ran 20.5 for 200 and was a 27-low long jumper at Stanford.
I'm guessing that a 27-foot long jumper who could run long sprints (I also saw him run an easy 1:58 in Superstars one year) probably was fast enough to make that mythical track meet described earlier.
Forty Times are Bogus in the NFL/ Judge
RamBill
Wed Apr 18 01:29:00 2001
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Forty times are bogus in the NFL=20
April 17, 2001=20
BY CLARK JUDGE
FOXSports.com =20
=20
There is something that makes no sense to me, and, for once, it doesn't =
involve Mark Cuban. No, it's what I'm hearing about Michael Vick, the =
first choice in this weekend's draft. The word starting to make the =
rounds on the Virginia Tech quarterback is that he can run the 40 in =
less than 4.3 seconds.
I never saw Vick run a 40, and I wasn't at his workout at Virginia Tech. =
But one thing I can guarantee is this: Vick cannot run the 40 in under =
4.3 seconds. Heck, he can't run it under 4.4, either.
That's not a knock on Vick. It's a knock on an NFL practice that is =
absolutely, positively out of whack. I'm talking about 40-yard dash =
times. They're the standard by which draft-eligible players are =
measured, and they're as reliable as UFO sightings.
Yet when the NFL begins its march of draftees on Saturday you're going =
to hear how one running back ran a 4.32, a wide receiver peeled off a =
4.34 or some 350-pound lummox breezed through a 4.85. It makes for good =
copy. But so did Paul Bunyan.
"The only way to get a true 40-yard dash time is to get electronic =
timing where a man breaks a wire when he leaves the starting gate," said =
Buffalo's vice president in charge of player personnel, Dwight Adams. =
"The 40 is a common denominator in football, but it's blown way out of =
proportion. It's physically impossible to run a 4.2 and, probably, a =
4.3."
Don't tell that to the guys holding stopwatches. I remember when Vance =
Johnson, then a wide receiver at the University of Arizona, ran the 40 =
in 4.19 seconds. At least that's what I was told. I guess Denver was, =
too, because the Broncos made him their second-round draft pick in 1985.
I also remember when Laveranues Coles, then a wide receiver at Florida =
State, was supposed to have run a 4.16. Nobody said anything about it =
being wind-aided, but it would have taken Hurricane Andrew to push him =
to a finish like that. The Jets media guide has him clocked at 4.29 last =
year, and there was no wind advisory there, either.
The NFL scouting combine has been using electronic timing since 1990, =
but that's one year after Deion Sanders set the standard against which =
all others are measured. Sanders ran a 4.29 in Prime Time, and nobody =
has beaten the mark since.
"You've got to take into consideration that most of these times are done =
with stopwatches," said San Diego State's Rahn Sheffield, coach of the =
women's track and field squad and a former track star himself. "A 4.2 =
really translates to a 4.4. When you hand time (dashes) it opens up room =
for human error. So when a Marshall Faulk runs a 4.33, it really equates =
to a 4.5."
All of which comes as no news to Adams, who for years has laughed off =
40-yard dashes and vertical jumps and long jumps as insignificant =
measures of a football prospect's abilities. He's more interested in =
production, which makes a lot of sense to me . and anyone else who =
believes stopwatches weren't made for football.
Remember when Jerry Rice emerged from Mississippi Valley State in 1985? =
He was supposed to be too slow. Same with USC running back Marcus Allen. =
Yeah, well, I never saw a defensive back who could catch Rice from =
behind until he tore up his knee, and Allen's a lock for the Hall of =
Fame.
O.J. Simpson might have been the fastest back to play the game. Go ahead =
and make a case for Bo Jackson. Maybe Herschel Walker, too. But Simpson =
ran a leg on Southern Cal's 440-yard relay team, one that set a world =
record, and if he were in this year's draft he'd be the fastest running =
back by far; faster than Big-10 sprint champion Michael Bennett. Faster =
than LaDainian Tomlinson. Faster than Deuce McAllister.
Any idea what Simpson ran for a 40? I do. Try 4.5. If you don't believe =
him ask. He said it shortly after he left USC.
"I must've missed something here," said Adams. "I spent some time this =
spring with an Olympic sprinter, and we sat in a stadium together, =
watching guys work out and talking about how the 40-yard dash times were =
way overdone."
The sprinter was Dennis Mitchell. Yeah, THAT Dennis Mitchell. He and =
Adams were together at the University of Florida, and when they heard =
times of some of the guys they watched Mitchell said nothing. He just =
shook his head.
"He was a little shocked," said Adams. "Being a great sprinter, he'd =
never seen so many people running 4.1s and 4.2s. I've talked to (track =
coach) Brooks Johnson and others who say, 'You football people are way =
ahead of us.' Of course, they're facetious."
If Adams had his way, he'd rely more on times for shorter distances -- =
especially for offensive and defensive linemen. Make them stop running =
40s and time them for 10s, maybe 20s. That's all they usually cover, =
anyway.
"I could see it," said Cleveland's vice president in charge of football =
operations, Dwight Clark. "But for running backs, wide receivers and =
defensive backs, I'd like to see the 40 stay."
The Browns don't rely on others' times. They clock prospects themselves, =
and if they don't, they don't have a record of them. The Browns never =
timed anyone at 4.2. They never timed anyone at 4.3, either, though they =
had the University of Arizona's Trung Canidate at 4.32 last year. I =
wasn't at that workout, either, but I know something was wrong.
And here's why. The fastest starter I ever saw was sprinter Ben Johnson, =
and at the 1988 Seoul Olympics track and field's fastest starter ran the =
100 meters in a blistering 9.79 seconds, a time that later was =
disallowed after Johnson tested positive for steroids. Know how fast he =
covered the first 40? It was 4.69 seconds. Forty meters is approximately =
44 yards, which means Johnson ran the first 40 in 4.26.
So, now, let's see if I have this straight: The chemically enhanced =
Johnson, the fastest starter in track history, ran the fastest 100 in =
history . only it was one-tenth of a second slower than Laveranues Coles =
a year ago and three one-hundreths of a second ahead of Sanders' NFL =
combine record.
It makes you wonder. It makes you wonder why anyone believes this stuff.
"I look at guys like Mean Joe Greene and Steve Van Buren and wonder how =
many 4.3s those guys did," said Adams. "I think we've gotten to the =
point where we've overdone the clock workout."
Senior writer Clark Judge covers the NFL for FOXSports.com. Send your =
comments to
I guess I can just copy n paste this into an email and send it to the simpletons.
Thanks!
Incredibly, the article fails to mention that the 40's are done without taking into consideration reaction time. The guy leaves the start when he is ready. So there's probably .2 right there, THEN there's the handtimed thing which is .24 ish.....so the 4.2's are actually more like 4.7's.....but to be fair, that is only if you're trying to compare it to track athletes. Track guys have reaction time to deal with, whereas football players don't.....and again, to be fair, maybe the football guys themselves could care less - because let's be honest, I don't think any of them would take the challenge of going head to head again a top sprinter on TV.....
so much hype, but he's never won a championship of any kind....
mustapha hater wrote:
so much hype, but he's never won a championship of any kind....
Say this again at the end of his career.
1982-Vincent Jackson, McAdory, 8,304
1981-Vincent Jackson, McAdory, 8,340
While he doesn't have the highest point total listed(1978-Dewayne Vaughn, Pinson Valley, 9,026) and isn't listed as the state record holder(Highest Point Total—Keith Nicholson, Leeds—6,897—1996), when I competed in 2001, I was made to understand that Bo Jackson was STILL the state record holder in Alabama even though he didn't run the 1500m.
This story was widely repeated, along with one about how Bo was walking along a fence, talking to someone on the other side, decided that he would like to be closer to the person whom he was talking with, and so cleared a 5' fence without disrupting his gait. Of the 30 or so coaches, parents, etc. who particpated in telling me this story, apparently every one of them(and everyone else in the stadium) was left with wide eyes and a hanging jaw at the ease of this feat.
It was a long weekend, please don't make fun of my hick state, and remember that Bo Jackson was the most explosive athlete to ever come out of Alabama.
FYI...
During the draft last year Mel Kieper Jr. (the draft guru) was asked what were the fastest times he can remmber for the 40 yard draft.
His answer:
2nd fastest was Deion Sanders with a 4.19
Fastest was Bo Jackson with a 4.14
Can u imagine getting hit by a 225-230 pounder running that fast.
OUCH.
Brian Bosworth can tell ya.
"ben johnson has dipped pretty far into the 3's, like 3.7x, or 3.9x"
.....and do u know how he could even get close to doing that, DRUGS!!! and second of all running in the threes is impossible, maybe in time and through evolution will man b able to accomplish this.....(you're an diot)![quote]BenJohnson wrote:
Supposedly Ladanian Tomlinson (SanDiego Chargers RB0 ran a 3.9
you are confusing a 40 YARD dash to the 100 METER dash
it took you 9 days to say that?
I'm sure he means 55m....since a 6.32 in the 55 is probably comparable to a 10.69 in the 100m. But 6.32, while it's not gonna win the NCAA's, is pretty fast. If he did nothing but track, that time would most likely come down. And if he did bring that down by say .1 sec, he'd be pretty f***in quick.
those of you who think 40 times are bogus, here's some info.
in college combines and well as pro/nfl combines, 40 times are done electronically which is equal to tracks fat time. Furthermore you guys who can't fathom that a track star runs a 10.00 but runs the first 40 in 4.4 must not realise that people gain speed as they go through those 100 meters. Vick ran a 4.21 quit whining.
busheater2k wrote:
those of you who think 40 times are bogus, here's some info.
in college combines and well as pro/nfl combines, 40 times are done electronically which is equal to tracks fat time. Furthermore you guys who can't fathom that a track star runs a 10.00 but runs the first 40 in 4.4 must not realise that people gain speed as they go through those 100 meters. Vick ran a 4.21 quit whining.
There is no way in hell that any world class 100m sprinter doesn't run all out the whole way. Of course he gains spped up to about 60-70m but he's still running all out to get to that point. So if you're seriously telling me that Mike Vick would be 2metres ahead of a 10.00 sprinter after 40 yards then maybe it's you who 'can't fathom' the reality of these situations. V. Tech has a history of bogus 40y times anyway. Last year they kept trying to tell us DeAngelo Hall ran a 4.17.
I keep hearing about Devin Hester at Miami (Fl) is 'a legit 4.2' guy. Well, barely scraped under 6.8 in all the 60m race results of his I've ever seen. Tell me, how does he slow so much over the last 20m or so of the race?