Jordan had 4 years of his first 10 where he averaged over 1 block/game
LBJ has 2 years where he averaged over 1 block/game
Jordan averaged over 2 steals/game for 10 years
LBJ has 1 year where he averaged over 1 steal/game
You cant argue that Jordan was not a better defensive player. Stick to the facts
Which sport do they play?
Citizen Runner wrote:
Dennis Reynolds wrote:Jordan played with Rodman and Pippen. Get the f*ck over it.
Lebron is the better teammate, just look at assist numbers.
Rodman was a defender and rebound specialist averaging about 5 points per game with the Bulls. He was the fifth option on offense no matter who the Bulls had on the court. Certainly not someone to pad anybody's assist count.
Or, as has been said, "If you locked Rodman in the gym all by himself for an hour he still couldn't score 20."
Omnicron wrote:
Watching them both, LBJ better passer and rebounder. Jordan quicker, but not as good a shooter. Jordan better defender, but a ballhog. Jordan more competitive, but not as good a teammate.
How can Jordan not be as good as LeBron in shooting? He has a higher career average, a wider range of shots, able to create more shoots and Lebron is known for much of his career as somebody to reverts to type and predictably.
Also at the clutch Jordan bar none. How many games have we seen Lebron's performance crumble under pressure? How many great big game performance had Jordan had? It's can't be compared in James favour in the slightest.
Also Jordan stats where built up in an era where the rules were more favourable to defences and temas like the Pistons and Knicks really took the pi## with physicalness. Lebron has it easier.
Dennis Reynolds wrote:
defensive wrote:People always forget about Jordan's all-around game. Not only did he win championships, MVPs, and scoring titles; but he won Defensive POY in '87-'88. One of only 4 players to win an MVP and Defensive POY in their career. Lebron has the opportunity to do that, but the rest of his stats that year would plummet from all the energy he would need to focus on defense. Jordan was consistently one of the best defenders in the NBA every year. For those who have seen Magic, Bird, Jordan, and now Lebron, we all realize the only player who belongs in the discussion with Jordan is from long ago; Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.
WTF are you talking about? Lebron was 2nd in Defensive Player of the Year this year and you could make a damn good argument he was robbed and should have won it. Also had one of his most efficient and best all around offensive years of his career so there goes your stats plummeting theory.
What am I talking about? I'm talking about the Defensive POY that Jordan actually won, not how Lebron shoulda woulda coulda... Look at the defensive stats from both players, then look at the offensive stats, then look at the rings, then look at the scoring titles, then look at the MVPs, and I could go on. For example, guys named Bill Wennington, Jud Buechler, Dickey Simpkins, and Randy Brown all played steady minutes in the Bulls rotation during the '95-'96 season, the record setting 72 win season. Without Jordan that team struggles to win 55 games. With Jordan, they set an NBA record that may never be broken. Lebron doesn't have that quality. No one ever has, no one ever will.
defensive wrote:
What am I talking about? I'm talking about the Defensive POY that Jordan actually won, not how Lebron shoulda woulda coulda... Look at the defensive stats from both players, then look at the offensive stats, then look at the rings, then look at the scoring titles, then look at the MVPs, and I could go on. For example, guys named Bill Wennington, Jud Buechler, Dickey Simpkins, and Randy Brown all played steady minutes in the Bulls rotation during the '95-'96 season, the record setting 72 win season. Without Jordan that team struggles to win 55 games. With Jordan, they set an NBA record that may never be broken. Lebron doesn't have that quality. No one ever has, no one ever will.
You can say this year without Lebron this years team (which is getting up there with that Bulls team to be the greatest team ever, 45 wins in 48 games is absurd) struggles to win 50. With DWade basically a shell of himself and Bosh not playing All-Star caliber ball that is a reasonable statement. Also, defense most definitely cannot be broken down into just stats. On ball defense, pick and roll defense, defensive positioning are just some of the skills needed by supreme defenders that are not captured in blocks and steals. Lebron is better at that than Jordan.
I do think Jordan is better but Lebron most certainly is in the conversation and getting closer. I think people still hate Lebron for the decision and get nostalgic about MJ.
Dennis Reynolds wrote:
I do think Jordan is better but Lebron most certainly is in the conversation and getting closer. I think people still hate Lebron for the decision and get nostalgic about MJ.
I think Lebron does some things better than Jordan such as man up defense and he can effectively defend all positions. Any argument involving Jordan becomes too much of an affront to too many because Jordan was really the first "Nike" type athlete and can really never be displaced in that regard.
I do agree that the decision taints a lot of opinions although I find Lebron more likeable than Jordan.
Gandalf the Grey wrote:
Merry and Samwise Gangee hold different opinions. Its up to Frodo to decide.
If Jordan and Lebron each throw a championship ring into mount doom, Jordan would still have five rings left and Lebron would have none.
defensive wrote:
Dennis Reynolds wrote:WTF are you talking about? Lebron was 2nd in Defensive Player of the Year this year and you could make a damn good argument he was robbed and should have won it. Also had one of his most efficient and best all around offensive years of his career so there goes your stats plummeting theory.
What am I talking about? I'm talking about the Defensive POY that Jordan actually won, not how Lebron shoulda woulda coulda... Look at the defensive stats from both players, then look at the offensive stats, then look at the rings, then look at the scoring titles, then look at the MVPs, and I could go on. For example, guys named Bill Wennington, Jud Buechler, Dickey Simpkins, and Randy Brown all played steady minutes in the Bulls rotation during the '95-'96 season, the record setting 72 win season. Without Jordan that team struggles to win 55 games. With Jordan, they set an NBA record that may never be broken. Lebron doesn't have that quality. No one ever has, no one ever will.
Cavaliers 2008-09: 66-16
Cavaliers 2009-10: 61-21
Cavaliers 2010-11: 19-63
LeBron definitely has THAT quality...
uhmmmmmmm wrote:
Cavaliers 2008-09: 66-16
Cavaliers 2009-10: 61-21
Cavaliers 2010-11: 19-63
LeBron definitely has THAT quality...
Bulls 1993-94: 55-27 without Jordan
Bulls 1994-95: 47-35 with Jordan for 17 games
I think most of you on the Jordan side of the argument are forgetting how good the Bulls were without Jordan.
I still have Jordan as a slightly better player, but anyone who's saying it isn't close, no matter the side you are on, just doesn't understand basketball. Those Bulls teams were tremendous teams without Jordan. Lebron only recently had this kind of help, and look at what he's doing with it. The Caveliers have been among the worst teams in the NBA since Lebron left. It's scary how much better one player can make a team. Can anyone even name another Cavalier from the Lebron years?
MJ's ability to impose his will on the most important games when it mattered most, gives him the edge over LJ... at least for now. If LJ leads his teams to a few more rings then the debate can begin.
EVERYONE LISTEN UP!!!!!! NO ONE WINS BY THEMSELVES. Magic didn't, Bird Didn't, Jordan didn't, Lebron didn't.
Titles are waaaaaaay overrated. It's so much more about the team than the individual. Those Bulls teams had Pippen and Rodman who were on the all Defensive Team and the All Star Team every year. Don't you think that had something to do with how good they were. Until Lebron joined the Heat, he's never played with another all star. He's also never played with another All Defensive player.
Mo Williams baby!
jordan definitely had a charisma and presence about him that lebron just doesn't have.
james has 2 inches and 36 pounds on jordan. jordan was faster. Their stats are about the same; jordan probably has a slight edge in the production department, but he played in a different era. players in the nba are a bit stronger and faster today.
lebron's stats this year are just incredible. man, i hadn't seen that.
all that said, jordan's ability to lead, create, defend, and work within a team construct probably makes him a better player, but lebron is no slouch in any of these categories (other than the leadership category vs jordan) and it makes it next to impossible to compare. it is never simple to compare either football or basketball players in this era. (but really, what do i know other than more than a lot of people who posted on this thread. people who know bball backwards and forwards understand this better than us amateurs.)