What kind of road bikes do you guys ride?

I didn't answer your mileage question. In racing season basically a week looks like this. While maintaing a full time job (I'm debating signing a contract next year-as the lifestyle may not be what I'm looking for)

Monday-1-2 hours of recovery 30ish miles

Tuesday-3.5-4 hours Endurance with possible tempo work-60-70 miles

Wednesday-2.5-3 hours. Race practice/interval work/motor pacing 42-50 miles

Thursday- Off or 1 hour ride if race

Friday- 2.5 hours with race openers

Saturday- Race

Sunday- Race or endurance ride.

oatmeal + water wrote:

have you ever weighed it?

I have not but it must be almost twice the weight of my friends' bikes.

why only 15-16 mph for your endurance rides? at 16 mph over 4 hours, that's only 62 miles. i think you are underestimating yourself/being modest.

the friend i mentioned says he averages a little over 20 on a 55 mile ride. he's about 6 feet, 150lbs. raced in college (won several B and C races). it kinda blows my mind that your average speed is slower, but then again, i'm not sure if he rides everyday like you do. also, do you train alone or with your team?

i'll be happy to buy it from you if you no longer want it.

Colnago C4 (Campy Record 9-speed, early 2000s) and Fisher Aquila Mtn Bike. I have ridden a variety of bikes over the last five decades. I raced on one of the Vitus frames, which worked in part because I am quite light and am a climber rather than a sprinter, although it was a 'lower-quality' bike compared to the people I was racing against (early 1980s).

I cross-trained some when I was running primarily, and ran some when I was racing on the bike. Since then, I do both, with more riding in the summer and more running in the winter.

You really need variety in your ride in multiple dimensions. Terrain; pace (with over the entire ride and within rides); distance; scenery.

Current CAAD bikes are pretty decent bikes, although I have never ridden them (current aluminum bikes are stiffer than I need and want at my age and weight).

An endurance ride for me will have over 4000 feet of climbing. Watching your watts is very important to do. Endurance rides I will avg around 170 watts and never peak over 250. That is barely pedaling on the uphills. When I first started cycling I would hammer every day. This is a mistake when you're trying to race. Putting out 20 minute powers over 350 watts.

Most training is done alone unless it is a team organized event. Wednesdays I bike to a set location where 50-60 guys try and be heroes in a somewhat organized circuit race.

Not trying to be critical, but I think you're putting too much thought into an average speed. Cyclists generally care very little about their speed. They care about watt output. On a flat or rolling road could I average 20 mph for 4 hours? absolutely. Would it be in the right zone for that day? Maybe. Maybe not. When my interval days come. I suffer. LIke a dog. And I hit my watts (without getting overly carried away). When my endurance days come. I ride my bike. I spin. I build the endurance. When my races come. I race.

I don't judge a days effort based on speed. I judge it based on my watts. My TSS. and heart rate. With that said, you and I could be riding completely different routes with completely different results. Maybe I would avg. 23 where you ride. Who knows!! Glad to help with questions as best as I can. However, I am very new myself and trying to learn quickly.

it's fairly flat near the nyc area so that's probably a big reason. there's no way i'm climb 4000 feet on my rides.

i don't have a power meter, so i have no idea how to gauge that. my bike computer is fairly basic, cadence, average speed, temperature, etc.

in terms of training: the only problem for me is that when i bike, my quads burn like hell some days but i never feel as out of breath as i am when running. this leads me to think i am not using enough effort. for example, even on my easy days running, my perceived cardiovascular strain is greater than my average cycling day. you know? unless i'm climbing, i am never really breathing heavily. just that my quads burn like hell if i ride 3 days back to back. i'm not sure if i'm doing it wrong or whatnot, but is what you experience as well?

also, i am putting on weight even though i am cycling a decent amount. when i ran 70mpw, i never gained weight, so i don't know how to translate volume from running to cycling. i eat fairly healthy but big portions.

This is a very common complaint.

When I was racing 60 mile road race, I emailed my coach and said that I couldn't push my legs hard enough to hurt my lungs. Here is what he said.

"This is a tough one because there are a lot of factors.

In general, at no point in cycling (assuming you aren't really hammering) are you really challenging the "strength" of your legs. You do so in sprinting. And often in some surging type efforts of 10s or less. Crazily enough, even when riding at threshold you are basically doing the equivalent of slowly walking up a set of stairs in terms of the 'weight' you are lifting.

Assuming that someone has around 2000 calories of glycogen on hand when absolutely, completely filled up, and that when riding hard the glycogen contribution can be more than 50% of your fuel source (up to 75% at threshold), and you might be burning close to 1000 calories per hour, you basically don't have unlimited matches to burn in a race, especially if you are in moves and close to threshold. The heavy feeling is the accumulation of waste products that your body simply isn't able to recycle / turn back into fuel, If your glycogen stores were at all compromised before the race you might have 2hrs of that kind of riding in your legs before you'll really start to feel it. They've kind of disproven "lactic burn", but they have shown that lactic acid is a marker for when other waste products can't be processed as fast as they are produced.

So that is one possible factor there. That might give rise to the feeling of not being out of breath, but your legs killing you.

The whole Lance Armstrong "spin fast" thing belies the fact that the guy lost weight, did drugs, and also vastly improved the ECONOMY of his riding. So that is another factor. You can be a low cadence guy and have great economy. Or a fast cadence guy and have great economy. The studies that have tried to prove that you can consciously change your pedaling cadence and have that impact your threshold power have been inconclusive"

End email.

With that being said, cardiovascular wise you are doing more than you think. I usually only become out of breath with very hard efforts or hills. But think about a perfect running race for you. Are you really that out of breath? Or are you just focusing on a steady breathing pattern and not letting your legs fail. I can guarantee I am just as strong cardiovascular wise when I was running 90-100 miles weeks. The only noticeable change is in my legs. They have become much more defined, and I have added 1-2 inches of muscle. Running feels very awkward for me now. My friends have noted that I look skinnier than when I was running however. So maybe you are just building muscle?

Late 1980's steel frame Guerciotti, with full Campi Super record. Orginal cages with Binda straps. May have paid about $1500 for it back in the day.

Just got it cleaned up and ready for riding.

ok, from what you've written my understanding is that cycling uses less effort per unit of time than running does but since it's "easier" we can sustain the effort over a longer period of time. as you climb/sprint you accumulate lactic acid and that's how your legs hurt.

in my head what you just described would something like walking a long period of time and having 10s hard sprints in my middle. after a few sprints, you are gonna have too much lactic in your legs. so that's when the burn begins. but are you really using your cardiovascular system/pushing your vo2max? it would be the equivalent of doing 10x100s with 10 minute easy walking. what's the "tempo" equivalent of cycling?

also, what does your cadence look like for various types of terrain?

great insights, thanks.

Well, to clarify- Walking and cycling are much different. Walking stairs is what he meant from a weight baring sense. And by threshold, he means- the pace that I am holding when I am out front, solo on a break. Which has happened a few races this year. I am pushing my body to the hardest effort I can sustain for the remainder of my race. This type effort would feel similar to that of a half marathon or marathon I assume.

So to my running friends, I try to explain tempo as such. Tempo workouts for me usually look like 300-330 watts. So about 85-90% of what I can do for an hour. But I usually only do that for 3x10 minute efforts. A quick test for you to gauge these efforts would be based on heart rate.

I never ran on heartrate, but I would like to imagine that when I would hit my tempo pace for my 60-70 minute tempo runs, I would usually go about 5:45-5:55 pace. A shorter tempo I would see around 5:20. So since I am on the shorter scale for these intervals lets say my heart rate was high 150's low 160's. My max is only low 180s. During those 10 minute efforts on the bike I hit those exact same heart rates. Averaging around 28 mph. The speed has nothing to do with my effort, rather my watt output and heart rate.

So for you, you would have to go off of your perceived running heart rate. Another example would be like in a 400 workout, I would have probably been hitting 170's heart rate after a few. Running my 1500 pace of 63-64's. In a 1 minute hard effort I could probably only work up to 160's but it's a similar effort.

During races, I will usually stay in the tempo pace (3 hour races) Then I will see my break away efforts or counter attacks, or hard surges where I will see 160s-170s. A crit which is 25-35 miles, I'll be hitting 160+ pretty much the whole time. But this is a redlined effort, with very minimal recovery on turns and quick descents.

So for you, without power. I recommend training on heart rate. In cycling, recovery is key. Endurance rides are just that. Endurance. My heart rate is usually only 120 during those rides. My hard efforts are when they are supposed to be. Therefore I could care less if I roll in the door and look down and only see a 15 mph average. I train to race, I don't race in my training.

Completely forgot cadence.

Average of whole ride. 85-87

Cadence specific fast intervals-95+

Regular intervals with my normal cadence-85-87

Climbing a hill-60-80 depending on the grade

I ride an old mixte road bike that I converted to fixed-gear. I don't do a lot of recreational riding but I ride everywhere around town where I live, in 2-5 mile stints. Sometimes I'll ride out to the next town and back for a 30-50 mile ride. I have not measured but I probably top out at about 20 mph spinning fast. I like the feeling of always being engaged with the bike. It is more consistent in some sense. It's more like running, especially when slowing down or controlling one's speed going downhill, because you're using your leg muscles eccentrically. Also, once you get into a nice pedaling rhythm you get a nice feeling of momentum assisting you in your pedaling.

There is a "scene" of kids who ride fixies. They seem to be mostly into doing tricks and hanging out, like skaters. I am not really part of that scene it but I'm very much a convert to riding fixie for most of my transportation. I have a brake on my bike but I rarely use it. Instead I slow down gradually if I see a stop sign or red light and I try to catch green lights whenever I can.

I'm looking to make wheel upgrades and can spend up to 1000. What do you recommend? I ride a Cannondale CAAD 10 as well, if that matters.

To race with, ride, or both?

I don't think I'll be doing much racing. I'm a much better runner than I will ever be a cyclist. My main goal is to retain fitness while I recover from my injury.

However, I am beginning to fall in love with the sport. I love the feeling of flying down hills and dropping riders on climbs. In the long term, I want to invest in something I can be proud of and happy with.

Main restraints are:

- up to 1.5K for the wheels.

- good durability

- deeper rims in the neighborhood of 35mm (for aero and because it looks dope), over 50mm and it's just not good when windy, right?

My main candidate right now:

http://www.wiggle.com/shimano-dura-ace-9000-c35-clincher-wheelset/

What do you think?

Eventually, I'd like to ride in a longer event, like a century or something. But I don't think I'd be good at crits (not as technically sound).

If you're going to be dropping that kind of money. I would be looking into a carbon clincher set. Why? Because you said dope. And they are dope. They're strong. Durable, and sound awesome on the road. Wheels are the most important aspect of a road bike. Then groupset. Then the frame. My caad 10 with my full carbon tubulars is 15.8 lbs.

IF you knew what you were looking for. And IF you found a great deal, you could pick up a pair of mildly used zipp 303's clinchers for that price. However, an analogy to this would be like rocking a pair of racing flats on a training run. 303's are super durable (They're the preferred cyclocross wheel set).

New you would probably be looking at Mavic Kysrium SL for that price range. Used and great deal you could probably find the SLR's for a great deal. Problem is with used, you never know the condition of the hub. So you just have to hope for the best.

Racing is awesome. I loved to run. Steeplechase was my event because it gave me a rush. But nothing compares to the rush, cyclocross, crits, and road races bring. Good luck.

Thanks for the tips.

After some research, I've settled on some new semi-custom wheels from November Biycles for $900 (on sale). 50mm carbon clinchers:

http://www.novemberbicycles.com/rfsc-50s/

I also ordered some Michelin Pro 4 SCs to go with them. I'll post a link when I put it together (might take a while though).

What kind of workouts would you recommend for a beginner like me (without a power meter or heart rate monitor)?