Make your easy runs easy and your hard runs hard. Way to go.
Make your easy runs easy and your hard runs hard. Way to go.
Spent time years ago watching some 2.8 Japanese guys running. 300km per week the bulk of it at 12kmph/8min mile pace. However they did specific work such as 1-5km reps at 2.50 km pace, 40km runs at 3.15-20 km pace, occassional longer runs of 60-100plus kms at 4.00 km pace, time trials of 15-30kms at 3.00-10 km pace etc. So hard runs mixed with lots of very slow running for very big total volume.
runn wrote:
That is a very valid point. I remember way back in the day when Minnesota had a bunch of good distance runners (Bjorklund, etc)an article in Runners World (when it catered to runners) talked about how they said their success was due to the fact that they slowed down in the winter because of the conditions. Running slower, they ran more miles while their warm weather counterparts were running faster and racing and burning out.
On another note- the US went through a low mileage stage, "coaches" said that "junk" miles were worthless. Distance running in this country hit rock bottom at all levels.
Then, Bob Kennedy made a statement to the effect that he couldn't compete with the world's best running low mileage. He increased his mileage and got great.
yeah, but remember that bob kennedy's idea of "slow" miles is a lot different that what your idea of slow miles is.
i had the chance to train around steve holman for a bit in the mid-90s. occasionally kennedy would be there for long runs or off day runs. they ran everything at around 6 min pace or slightly faster. that was just cruising speed for those guys.
i've got a viren documentary video from the late 70s. shows him training in all various stages. one of the cool thing about it is that he just logged miles. did some repeats on some hilly trails and 100m repeats on the infield of the track. but the footage just shows him out on runs - cranking out miles in the snow in finland, the altitiude of columbia, etc. it's tough to tell what kind of pace he was running, but it doesn't look that slow to me. but HE was relaxed, which was the important part.
i guess i just want to echo what wejo was saying - don't worry about what your pace is or what someone else's pace is. a recovery run should be a recovery run - meaning you shouldn't be hammering. for someone like kennedy or geb, that might be 5:45 mile pace. for someone like you it might be 8 min pace.
If I remember correctly Kennedy was actually a pretty lo mileage guy... Always under 90...Jeeo in mind that he never ran a 10k until after his prime, and that he was at 30 mpw in high school to boot...
seb coe- 30 mpw- all fast
Ge or Ga (not sure what that name is!)--I don't mean to call you a wuss...sorry about that. My point is only that I hear a number of people on here who want to find some excuse to not do the work (and I don't mean you in particular).
It seems that people find excuses to run slow (Viren did it, Wejo did it, etc...), to stay off the track, etc... It's just that this stuff we hear about good runners is not the whole story. You certainly do need to allow your body to recover, which requires some easy days. The problem is when people don't understand that this alone (lots of slow miles) will not result in fast times.
the best runners I know (and these people are multiple time all americans, ncaa champs, national champs, etc...) run hard most of the time. Their idea of an easy day is not the same as that of the typical poster here, and I don't mean just the normal adjustment for ability level.
I don't know much about training philosophies other than what I have seen and experienced. The fast people I know are almost never jogging around at 7-8 minute pace, so I'm just throwing it out there to add to this discussion.
seb coe- 30 mpw- all fast
NO! what is this myth about coe doing extrememly low milage amazingly fast all the time, no matter what. If you mean he didn't run 100 mile weeks you are right, however Coe never counted alot of his miles because they were either warm up or cool down. In base phases Coe did atleast 70 mile weeks many times over. In some parts of the year he did lower milage yes, but only during some parts.
Illiterate Runner- How fitting... If you have read Peter Coe's "Winning Running: Successful Racing and Training for the 800 and 1500m" you would know Coe didn't count warmup, cooldown, recovery, etc and still hit 70 mpw in the base, and way more than 30 except for maybe a week or two before the olympics. Bob Kennedy did excel on low mileage... in high school. He trained with kenyans at over 120 mpw before he ran his AR.
Kennedy ran around 90-100 before his 5k AR. Afterwards he ran 140 before his 3k WR which is worth about the same as his 5k AR.
so that means 90 to 100 is just fine for a 3 to 5k guy.
It's the 10k and up guys who need to do 120 and more.
Yes,
Viren ran that slow. A few years ago I hired Jon Sinclair to coach me. He met Viren a few times who confirmed that several of his early season runs were very, very slow. He never mentioned a number, but I think 7 minute pace is way off.