40 Kenyan Athletes in 1st out of Competition Blood Tests in Home Country

deanouk wrote:

[quote]d'voidoffunk wrote:

Surely it now puts the whole "African emergence" in the mid '90's into question.

Hang on, man. Wait until the test results are in to say things like this.

moron

your peabrain not understand basic economics

kenya is a 3rd world country & isn't going to spend valuable money on setting up a testing lab when there is no mandatory requirement

wada/iaaf are well aware of this with 3rd world counties & that's why they send independent testers to these countries for OOC tests

however,moron it's cost involved to iaaf/wada

wada has limited yearly budget in region of $10 million

to perform an OOC test by them for an athlete living in london or berlin or paris or rome may involve little more than a bus ride for a tester

to test a kenyan, wada woud have to pay for the tester to take a airplane flight from south africa ( one of the, if not nearest lab ) to nairobi & then a few hundered mile journey by rail & cab to get to the rift valley camp

what is the difference in relative cost between the 2 scenarios you idiot ???

now consider how much of wada's limited budget do you think the bosses there want to spend on this when they have to develop new & better drug tests for newer drugs ???

moron

no one has ever claimed they were tested OOC as often as western athletes because of above

where did you get this drivel ???

they are tested just as much as anyone else when in europe

moron

only canova said that & he was misguided

of course epo woud have an effect on kenyans, but with already high haematocrit from living at altitude, the same dose as given to a lowlander woud have less effect on an altitude dweller meaning higher, more dangerous doses needed to get a comparable improvement as lowlanders

idiot

this is not news

it was well known little OOC competition was done in kenya because wada had better uses with their limited budget

idiot

it's because 1 country has 1 vote for elections

fiji has 1 vote same as USA

with large number of 3rd world member countries, who are likely to vote for a 3rd world candidate, it's well known it's impossible for a 1st world guy to be elected nowdays

this is a problem iaaf needs to sort out

because moron, iaaf/wada don't have the money to test kenyans as often as 1st worlders

Does anyone know when blood testing was introduced in out of competition test in Europe/America

As far as I know it would only be urine until relatively recently. At the time all the middle/ long distance records were set I think they were only doing urine samples over here

J.R. wrote:

Blood testing is invasive and ridiculous.

There is no point to it at all, except to perpetuate the drug testing hypocrisy that keeps promoting the drugs.

Hey you mothaluvin little spambot, this aint no place for spewing your deluded and evidence lacking conspiratard scenarios.

Hah, who thaught you english? A french missionairy on his way trough your third world country? This is english on a low low level, do you call out others with a peabrain because you recognise others of your kind?

Damn right they are, Kenya is a shitty country like many other in Africa. They are very good at running though. But lets not forget, Kenyans are shitty boxers!

This is true, and it only makes the argument that its very easy to cheat, and therefore by human nature its extremely likely that PEDs is a problem in Kenya. Kenyans aint no saints, its not long since they had a civil war with crossbows! They are far behind western civilization.

Keep making arguments that make it more likely that Kenyans cheat than not, you silly little boy. Take a class on logic will ya.

BULLSHIT! Facts prove they are NOT tested as much or as good as European athletes, you yourself gave the reason to that further up.

What a lack of intellect you show here Ventolin.

Steroids help with recovery. Boom! There goes your argument. Aint much testing of any kind in Kenya mistah Vento. They can be taking all of them druggs.

idiot

this is not news

it was well known little OOC competition was done in kenya because wada had better uses with their limited budget

And therefore its extremely likely that Kenyans dope.

You idiot. Can you even read?

I know that being "A Duck" defines your apparently one-dimensional identity, but not every statement about sport relates to your hero Galen Rupp. This one certainly doesn't.

First of all, I have defended and supported Rupp in many threads. Unlike you (and certain wool-bearing mammals), I happen to believe that one can hold a variety of views on a given person.

Second of all, how is my post "defending Kenyans"? It simply explains to an ignorant poster the difference between out-of-competition and out-of-season testing, and suggests this in fact SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE SOONER.

Read, man, read!

Cheaters Cheaters Cheaters wrote:

Doesn't mean crap. LA passed 10,000 tests. Rupp passed and still gets a pass.

Yes it does, look at LA's comment about the manner in which they test and keep profiles. Of course, the one test will not provide much of a profile on the blood test components.

High Wire wrote:

The First Wave of PED use was steroids in the late 60's/70's. Look at the ethnic representation of sprinters at the Olympic/world level before and after 1968. You will see a MAJOR change in composition, and it isn't just because black sprinters suddenly discovered they were genetically gifted. They were FAR more inclined to take the risk of drugs

Wow. I hope you're joking, but fear you're not.

Other than the arrival of steroids, which according to you white people are loathe to use, can you think of ANYTHING else that happened between the 1950s and 1970s that MIGHT have contributed to the trend of increasing black participation and success in sports? Come on...think...

If you fail this test, I'm not going to waste another second responding to you.

someone who know SOMETHING wrote:

Kenyan track performances are physically impossible without PEDs.

Until Rupp gets there. Then, of course, it will be due to the alter-G, cryo-sauna and good form.

There was no EPO test in the '90s. To argue that Kenyans succeeded because of doping when everyone else was AT LEAST as capable (if not significantly more, given their relative incomes) of doping is inane.

Some of you seem to be arguing that the lack of testing in East Africa is somehow defensible. This is a ridiculous argument.

Personally, I'm not pointing the finger at Kenyan athletes, I'm not saying they are dirty.

My point is that you can't have a doping control system where athletes from one country are required to be available for surprise testing, submit samples and inform testers constantly of their whereabouts while at the same time having another country where athletes can do whatever the hell they want without these requirements. Athletes should be treated with some consistency. This consistency becomes particularly important when those atheletes who have been allowed to do whatever the hell they want start to completely dominate major competitions without a single positive test of the major stars. This is an obvious point and not really debatable.

If they same WADA bozos show up in Kenya that were at London then they'll inform in advance the test parameters and everyone will easily pass. How else do you think Farah and Rupp were able to dope up and run at London.

d'voidoffunk wrote:

Some of you seem to be arguing that the lack of testing in East Africa is somehow defensible. This is a ridiculous argument.

Personally, I'm not pointing the finger at Kenyan athletes, I'm not saying they are dirty.

My point is that you can't have a doping control system where athletes from one country are required to be available for surprise testing, submit samples and inform testers constantly of their whereabouts while at the same time having another country where athletes can do whatever the hell they want without these requirements. Athletes should be treated with some consistency. This consistency becomes particularly important when those atheletes who have been allowed to do whatever the hell they want start to completely dominate major competitions without a single positive test of the major stars. This is an obvious point and not really debatable.

This is exactly where I am coming from too. It doesn't matter whether it's Kenya, Finland, Canada, wherever! The nationality is unimportant. It only becomes important when there is a lack of transparency and parity between different groups of people. And, as you pertinently illustrated, when that group being treated differently starts dominating others, then there is no longer a level playing field, and this just adds to scepticism, rumour mongering, etc, which is what is harming the sport.

I don't think for one minute that it was just Kenyans or even Africans taking EPO in the late 90's. I'm sure a lot of elite athletes from around the world did the same thing, knowing they could not get tested or caught for it. Yes, Africans still dominated, as they are likely to most of the time, but the sort of times that several African athletes produced in the late 90s/early 00's were just too fantastical. While most other countries have undergone vigorous and robust testing procedures both out of competition and out of season in the last decade (thus many of their leading athletes' times subsequently stagnated), it would now seem clear that this hasn't been the case for Kenyan runners. It doesn't matter whether 1 or a dozen of their athletes have taken PEDs during that time and got away with it. What matters is that the wool was pulled over most peoples' eyes by claiming they were tested "like everyone else".

They clearly weren't.

d'voidoffunk wrote:

The supposed biological explanation of East African dominance in distance running is specious, unproven and perhaps even offensive. What is proven by this article is that some countries have relatively rigorous doping testing and related non-testing controls while other countries do not. These more rigorous programs are certainly far from perfect but at least they exist. The fact that major stars in countries with rigorous controls have been brought down indicates that the controls are at least partially successful. No major African star has ever tested positive? I'm sorry, I don't buy it. There's a huge double standard at work here.

How do you explain the success that E Africans that grow up in the US have encountered? I know the biological explanation may not have been proven scientifically but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist to some degree. Look at the current crop of NCAA and high school E African champs. They have no drug advantage but yet still dominate.

It is a complete joke that no off season testing takes place in Africa but to say that is the answer is just as ridiculous.

d'voidoffunk wrote:

Some of you seem to be arguing that the lack of testing in East Africa is somehow defensible. This is a ridiculous argument.

Don't know why you're saying this in reply to me. I explicitly said that this should have been done long ago.

I acknowledge Ventolin's point that it takes a lot more resources (clearly an absolute MINIMUM of $3000 for transport/travel alone) to get a sample "properly handled" from Kapsabet to Geneva than from Paris to Geneva. Have you ever been to these places? For some villages on a bad day we are talking about a potential 12-hour trip FROM NAIROBI. And there's no direct flight from Nairobi to Geneva that I'm aware of. I don't think this should prevent testing, but a reasonable discussion of why things have been this way in the past can't proceed from ignorance of these facts.

Even so, I think it should be absolutely mandatory that ALL active athletes are subject to out-of-season testing, with the goal of equal probability of testing for Asbel Kiprop and Galen Rupp. That's the diection WADA has now moved. THEY ARE DOING WHAT YOU ARE ASKING FOR.

You know that world class runner Mathew Kisorio told about his doping career in Kenya in a german article? That Isaiah Kiplagat (AK Kenya, national assiciation) meanwhile told about organized doping in Kenya and doctors making big cash with prize money of doped athletes?

You wonder why so many foreign athletes spend so much time in Kenya, officially just to learn how to run (though myriads of articles describe their training) and to do altitude training in Kenya (as if this couldn´t be done anywhere else and though a lot of time is wasted due to travelling, vaccination, acclimatization... )?

Mountains of work to be done to separate the clean athletes from those hopped-up on whatever!

ventolin^3 wrote: wada has limited yearly budget in region of $10 million

to perform an OOC test by them for an athlete living in london or berlin or paris or rome may involve little more than a bus ride for a tester

to test a kenyan, wada woud have to pay for the tester to take a airplane flight from south africa ( one of the, if not nearest lab ) to nairobi & then a few hundered mile journey by rail & cab to get to the rift valley camp

that really puts it into perspective.

it's interesting that a 3rd world country may have certain advantages over western ones.

3 x mile in 3:58 with 15 minutes recovery impossible without EPO.