Complaints about NCAA Nationals @ Louisville’s course by coaches: Right or Wrong?

Agreed, pre-nats was lacking. The problem is that with the amount of stuff they brought in to dress it up with they could make terre haute look good. It seriously comes off as bush league pulling up to some dumpy park.

It should stay in Terre Haute. Its a great course and its nice to be able to compare times year after year.

As someone currently living in Boston, I have wondered why one of the local schools does not step up and host the meet at Franklin Park. For more info, see Jesse Squire's recent series of articles on historic cross country courses.

The bid cycle was for 2011-2013. The NCAA committee awarded the meet to Oregon 2011, Indiana State 2012, and Louisville 2013.

Oregon won the bid without a course.

ISU stepped in to host in 2011.

Louisville had Holly chairing the NCAA committee.

I'm Chris Hanson, have a seat.

[/quote]

Could you share your "game plan on how you will watch the race on this course and get to 10 spots in a 10k?

Also, are you sure ISU declined to host?[/quote]

Sounds like Louisville was giving the bid without a NCAA caliber course. So did ISU Not want the event this year?

1) Franklin Park is under construction this year, they aren't hosting races.

2) Unfortunately, as nice a venue as Franklin Park is, I don't think it's anywhere near the scale required to host NCAAs.

Franklin Park is a nice venue for a meet. I'm hoping and guessing Louisville is a nce place for a meet. Sites like Iowa State, Wisconsin, and Indianna State have dedicated cross country courses. Yet, it seems if only the course in Terre Haute has all of the NCAA requirements at this time.

muchadoaboutnothing wrote:

At the 400m mark "narrowing", you could still fit at least 20-25 runners wide,...so even if the gap from first to last was only 4 seconds (which is a stupid "fact",...It will easily be 8-10), all 250 would fit fine.

And with a gameplan, a halfway fit jogging spectator could see the 400m, 1/2 mile, the 2K, 3K, almost 4K, 5K, 7K, 8K, almost 9K, and finish.

Sigh....but keep trying. Oh, and remember that it was ISU that declined to bid this year. I guess they needed at least a 1 year break from all the whining they always get.

The D3 NCAA meet will be in Terre Haute this year - so I highly doubt that they didn't bid on the D1 meet.

Also, how wide is the L-ville course at the 400m mark when you think you can fit 20-25 runners wide?

In SD women wearing Navy SEALS t-shirts are real Navy SEALS.

In SD men wearing USMC t-shirts just got done bayonetting and pummeling to death with their bare hands dozens of Islamo-Fascists.

SD Mission Bay should be the permanent site for NCAA D1/D2/D3 XC.

I love the idea of the NCAA Meet in SD - just a very long road trip for the average fan.

Wisco Fan wrote:

As someone currently living in Boston, I have wondered why one of the local schools does not step up and host the meet at Franklin Park. For more info, see Jesse Squire's recent series of articles on historic cross country courses.

Franklin Park is a great idea! I only know the 5K layout but I'm pretty certain they have legit 6 and 10K races there. It is closed this year.

Why so good: 1) It's a serious XC course with some hills, a few tight turns, etc. requiring a conscious approach to race strategy. 2) It can handle a fair amount of water. 3) It can handle 250 runners. 4) It has a number of great places to watch. 5)It is an interesting course to run. 6) Course maintenance is taken very seriously at FP. Though it gets used a lot and predominantly for HS meets, runners will feel like they are running at a well-managed event. 7) The course has some serious history including being the host of the first New England Championships in 1935 and being the site of Alberto Salazar's high school exploits (including losing the All-State meet in 1974).

Problems: 1) It could snow. 2) Flo-ratings won't be able to predict the result. 3) One must be careful to avoid contact with bears.

nother bostonian wrote:

1) Franklin Park is under construction this year, they aren't hosting races.

2) Unfortunately, as nice a venue as Franklin Park is, I don't think it's anywhere near the scale required to host NCAAs.

Good enough for the IAAF to hold the World Cross Country Championships on but not "near the scale required to host NCAAs?"

IAAFXC wrote:

nother bostonian wrote:

1) Franklin Park is under construction this year, they aren't hosting races.

2) Unfortunately, as nice a venue as Franklin Park is, I don't think it's anywhere near the scale required to host NCAAs.

Good enough for the IAAF to hold the World Cross Country Championships on but not "near the scale required to host NCAAs?"

The NCAA has plenty of rules that make many good courses not eligible for a NCAA Championship event.

CC Fan wrote:

IAAFXC wrote:

Good enough for the IAAF to hold the World Cross Country Championships on but not "near the scale required to host NCAAs?"

The NCAA has plenty of rules that make many good courses not eligible for a NCAA Championship event.

Yeah, one of those NCAA rules being "The width of a championship course shall not be less than 10 meters throughout." Other than first 400-500m Louisville is AT MOST, 5 meters wide.

Doesn't seem that the NCAA is too concerned about the course specifications. Franklin Park > E.P. "Tom" Sawyer Park

Wow, I didn't know they fit a WC on that course. Was the course similar to the course today?

If you look at the 92 WC results[1], the spread from 10th to 160th was about 2:40, so a bit under one person a second. If you look at last year's NCAA D1 results[2], the spread from 10th to 160th is about 1:50, so almost three people every two seconds.

So the ncaa was definitely denser, but they're quite comparable Also the WC was 2k longer. So anyway, I'm surprised the fit that race on that course, and would like to see how what they ran compares to the modern course. I definitely don't think Franklin Park is close to meeting the NCAA's standards/regulations to host. But I didn't know it hosted WCs, that's cool.

[1]

http://web.archive.org/web/20071016110542/http://mypage.bluewin.ch/tomtytom/iccu/wxc_iaaf/wxc_SM1992S.html

[2]

http://www.flotrack.org/article/9216-2011-NCAA-Mens-Individual-Results

I ran at Pre Nats this year. Course is narrow 400m into the race and I almost trampled a few guys that went down. There is also some very uneven terrain at that point, which was the reason why guys were falling. I don't approve of nationals being there. I think Lehigh should host it. Gotta be one of the best and most wide open courses in the country. Also, it's not manicured like Wisconsin and has a bit of woods running in the third mile. Real cross country.

"Lehigh has a great course, I reckon..."

“That is just the way with some people. They get down on a thing when they don't know nothing about it.”

Huck Finn

How come the NCs have never returned to Rim Rock farm at University of Kansas? they were held there in 1998.

IAAFXC wrote:

CC Fan wrote:

The NCAA has plenty of rules that make many good courses not eligible for a NCAA Championship event.

Yeah, one of those NCAA rules being "The width of a championship course shall not be less than 10 meters throughout." Other than first 400-500m Louisville is AT MOST, 5 meters wide.

Doesn't seem that the NCAA is too concerned about the course specifications. Franklin Park > E.P. "Tom" Sawyer Park

This is why people are complaining. Why have a rule and then let some courses qualify when they simply don't meet the standards?