USADA makes completely false statement about Lance and USPS

I have a question.

Is this how you justify illegal or immoral decisions in your own life also? Does this kind of though process help you sleep at night when you cheat in your daily life?

coach d wrote:

So they're basically saying that it's Lance Armstrong's fault that THEY (USADA) don't have any physical evidence?

This is ludicrous. If they have evidence that Lance used testosterone and EPO they should present it.

They have partial data as evidence but require consent from the UCI who, in turn, claim they need Armstrong's consent to get the full data set to validate their conclusions. They're referring here to the results discussed starting at page 145 of the PDF, numbered page 140.

A) They have a sub set of test reports that are consistent with blood tampering per "biological passport" methods, but they don't have the complete results and procedures necessary to validate the analysis. Had the case gone to arbitration they would have either been given access to additional test results or they would have Armstrong's implicit admission of the validity of the analysis on partial data had he refused to consent to the release of the full data set.

B) Is the 2004 blind research analysis of stored 1999 samples for EPO that L'Equipe was able to trace back to Armstrong. There are obvious protocol issues here but the evidence is consistent with witness testimony.

C) There are samples from the 2001 Tour de Suisse that had "suspect" levels of EPO under the criteria at that time. As in (A), had the case gone to arbitration then either full test results would have been released for full analysis according to current practice or there would be an implicit admission of guilt.

I'm sorry but was your post supposed to be sarcastic?

You basically just said yes Lance doped. A direct corollary to this is that yes, Lance lied about doping and that Lance bullied and trashed numerous individuals along the way for coming out with the truth.

Hey, but it's all good since everyone else on the tour was doping.

Seriously?

+1

Read Tyler's book........it's over Lance.

For one who insists on complete accuracy, I guess you'll appreciate that the USADA statement was neither about Lance nor the USPS, but rather the USPS cycling team.To make your point about the USPS, this is a more authoritative link:http://about.usps.com/who-we-are/postal-facts/welcome.htm"0 — tax dollars received for operating the Postal Service"Oddly enough, your link tells us that "the US Postal Service has averaged a profit of over $1 billion per year in each of the last five years." It's hard to reconcile that with your side conclusion that the USPS is "basically broke".It's curious why you think an irrelevant statement in a press release could be considered "a big mistake". The press release is not part of the evidence. The words that really count are not in the press release, but the 202 page "reasoned decision" document, and all the affidavits and other supporting information.If that ends up being the biggest mistake you can find, I'd say that USADA must have a pretty solid case, since the verdict won't depend on the source of USPS cycling team funding.

F**K You USADA wrote:

end of paragraph 2

http://www.usada.org/cyclinginvestigationstatement.html

"...a team that received tens of millions of American taxpayer dollars in funding.""

When and/or how did the USPS team recieve taxpayer dollars? The USPS doesn't receive taxpayer dollars (thats one of the reasons they're basically broke).

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/consumerawareness/a/uspsabout.htm

bullshit that an organization can make such a big mistake like this...

rekrunner - I have to at least thank you for repsonding to my actual post.

thanks for the more authorative link about the fact that they get no tax money. the reason i think this is a big deal is because the vast majority of people think the USPS is funded with tax money and the official statement apparantly plays on this misconception and I think its important to know why a mistake like this was made. I think its due to motivation and to try to rile up the american public or why else would this false statement be in there. like you said if thats the biggest mistake they made sure its not a big deal in terms of their investigation but its a patently false statement that you would think one of the many people would have caught and not allowed.

I think its telling that that line is in the official statement that was picked up by all news outlets but the word tax is nowhere in the decision pdf. Again I think it speaks to the motiviation and what they're trying to accomplish and it smells fishy to me.

Remember some of the smallest details are what end up answering some of the biggest questions.

Also - there is no verdict - this isn't a court case. Great they've been able to prove LA cheated 10+ years ago. This might change things in cycling/running (maybe!) but again these sports are so small when compared with the big sports that I as what is actually gained again?

sorry forgot to address the fact that you can't reconcile making a profit in a given year with being broke as well. Give someone who has a clue to help you with your own financials or you're going to be in real trouble.

first i don't know when the article was written but here is a more recent one that might help you...

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R41024.pdf

"After running modest profits from FY2004 through FY2006, the USPS lost $25.4 billion between

FY2007 and FY2011.4"

nonethess less if you have debt of over $13 billion and in any given year you actually make a paper profit of $1 billion - well you're still pretty screwed if you're business isn't sustainable.

sorry forgot to address the fact that you can't reconcile making a profit in a given year with being broke as well. Give someone who has a clue to help you with your own financials or you're going to be in real trouble.

first i don't know when the article was written but here is a more recent one that might help you...

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R41024.pdf

"After running modest profits from FY2004 through FY2006, the USPS lost $25.4 billion between

FY2007 and FY2011.4"

nonethess less if you have debt of over $13 billion and in any given year you actually make a paper profit of $1 billion - well you're still pretty screwed if you're business isn't sustainable.

The USADA was throwing Lance a Bone.

The strong liklihood that Armstrong GOT the cancer BECAUSE he had been doping at the very limits of human physiology ever since he was 19 was left out of the scope of the USADA investigation.

(See Carmicheal vs. Strock, Kaiter et all.)

That was not done by accident either. Dr. Ferrari even thought so himself acording to recent revelations. Regardless, the only sliver of pre 1998 Armstong doping activity in the USADA report was the original 1996 payment to Ferrari in the ledger.

That's right chumps! Lance could have kept right on hoodwinking all you profoundly ignorant goobers as cancer Jesus for the rest of this life if he had just come clean on his activities from 1998 onwards.

Clearly that wasn't a good enough deal for him?

You're welcome.Well according to your own link, postage stamps were long considered a tax, until they were renamed as "postal products" in 1982. Maybe USADA didn't get that memo.But that's irrelevant. Stepping back and just giving this the briefest of thoughts, when the question is a large scale coordinated drug regime, drug trafficking, and conspiracy, the small detail about how the USPS is funded, or how the USPS funded the USPS team, doesn't really answer that big question. It's a distraction.I agree with you that this phrase doesn't belong in the press release, not so much because it is false or misleading or dishonest, but because it is simply irrelevant. And as you have illustrated, it can be potentially distracting. It was relevant for the federal investigation that abruptly terminated, but not for the USADA investigation. Maybe you have a point, that it doesn't sway the "thinking man's" opinion, but is targeted at those who form conclusions by reacting without thinking.I think it's correct to call USADA's decision to a lifetime ban of Armstrong, and a recommendation to strip all titles since 1999, a verdict. It's not a court, but arbitration is something like a simplified court. At least velonation agrees, referring to "USADA's verdict" http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/13040/UCI-confirms-receipt-of-USADAs-reasoned-decision-on-Lance-Armstrong-case.aspx Do you have a better word?

Thank you for the personal concern over my financial situation. Currently I have no debts just having paid the house off and, I have some money aside in investments for retirement. I still have two kids to put through school, and some concern about where pensions and healthcare will be in 20 years.I could be better off, but I think many others are a lot worse off.

USADA Misled wrote:

sorry forgot to address the fact that you can't reconcile making a profit in a given year with being broke as well. Give someone who has a clue to help you with your own financials or you're going to be in real trouble.

first i don't know when the article was written but here is a more recent one that might help you...

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R41024.pdf

"After running modest profits from FY2004 through FY2006, the USPS lost $25.4 billion between

FY2007 and FY2011.4"

nonethess less if you have debt of over $13 billion and in any given year you actually make a paper profit of $1 billion - well you're still pretty screwed if you're business isn't sustainable.

rek - thanks again for the reponse and glad to hear things are pretty good for you and congrats on the house...did you burn the mortgage papers yet?

given that the statement is false as I've said I think it speaks to motivation. the country is all hot on wasting tax money and i think they threw this in there to try to get people fired up and thats just plain wrong and they need to answer for it. it might be small in the grand scheme of the drug investigation but I still think its telling.

i still think you're missing a point here though...there was no court there was no arbitration.

lance has a lifetime ban from a sport he wasn't going to compete in anymore anyway. this is going to have some impact on him but really not much. so if the sport really has cleaned up in the last 5 years (as all the witnesses have basically said). I ask again what was/is the point?

yes his titles will likely be erased from the books but first that wont change who the real winner was and in every case where lance is going to be replaced he is going to be replaced by another cheat (in most cases a proven one) so what do they do?

On the same topic of motivation, I think it's telling how each of the bodies reacted to Landis' initial e-mail:

- USADA thought these were serious allegations that should be investigated further

- The UCI pre-judged and dismissed Landis' e-mail, and filed a lawsuit against him

USADA seems obligated and compelled to investigate serious accusations, as a core part of their mandate, while the UCI has neglected their primary duty to police the sport it governs.

I think this demonstrates that USADA was motivated to do the job it's mandated to do, while the UCI was clouded with conflicting motivations.

Nevertheless, verdict is the right word. Do you have a better one? That's what I'm missing.

The case was not only about Lance. USADA has now removed many others (doctors, trainers, and the team manager) who were still active in the sport of cycling. That is an important point relevant today and tomorrow.

The issue of the TDF titles for me is a non-issue. There were no winners. In any case, discussing how to clean up that mess shouldn't stop any organization from issuing appropriate sanctions.

There are a handful of people who are still active who are being investigated by USADA and may likely be permanently removed but the witnessed reiceved 6mo bans and then their back so they aren't removed...not bad considering the extend of it all and all of their involvements when compared to the 2yr bans in track i believe.

Also you need to remember the UCI is a union for cyclist and their primary duty isn't to police the sport. Like any other union they look out for their members and do what they believe is best for their members as a whole and their sport as a whole. At the time Lance was a large part of the sport and like any other teacher union or worker union they where trying to protect own with little regard for what it meant in the grander scheme.

The fact that you're missing a the "right" word is my point...what again was all of this for?

And for that matter why has the NFL and MLB essentially gotten a pass?

Listen Lance dopped and he did it on a grand scale but we're talking about things that happened 10+ years ago and yeah if you think PEDs in sports is wrong then you're happy that cycling is cleaning/cleaned up but again what was accomplished with this whole thing? It really was to attempt to make Lance look bad and sure to some people they did that but most and i mean most don't give a rats ass and still look up to him and will continue to do so.

USADA Misled wrote:

Listen Lance dopped and he did it on a grand scale but we're talking about things that happened 10+ years ago and yeah if you think PEDs in sports is wrong then you're happy that cycling is cleaning/cleaned up but again what was accomplished with this whole thing? It really was to attempt to make Lance look bad and sure to some people they did that but most and i mean most don't give a rats ass and still look up to him and will continue to do so.

Enough with the BS. For one, Lance competed in the Tour just 2 years ago and was actively competing in triathlons that are under the USADA code. He's active in team management in cycling. Only the ignorant still look up to Lance. He's not a hero, he's a fraud. He's been cheating since the '90s and likely got cancer due to PED use. Do you still look up to Marion Jones? Should she have been given a pass? The pro-Lance ("I take my yellow wristband off!") crowd has lost all sense of reality. You would not be posting this drivel if this was about a black sprinter or a French cyclist.

Go tell your boss that this crap isn't working anymore and you need to change the PR strategy.

USADA Misled wrote:

And for that matter why has the NFL and MLB essentially gotten a pass?

+1

but when people wake up and see that liers and cheaters lie and cheat in every aspect of their lives, livestrong is going to go down in flames.

i also give nike less than a month to retract their support of him when they realize the implications of being affiliated with him.

-1

USADA doesn't oversee the NFL or MLB. Get a clue before posting.