RE: Why is intelligence frowned upon in the US?

Not an elitist prick wrote:

When you have people like Santorum out there saying the president is a snob for wanting people to go to college (and him gaining support after saying it), it should be pretty clear that it's mostly dumb-shit, right-wing nut jobs who think like that. Well, I take that back. We also have the thugged-out, gangster element, who are by-and-large left leaning. Regardless, it's only the stupid people who frown upon intelligence. Unfortunately, they're the most vocal. Most normal people realize intelligence helps you get a better job and bigger paycheck.

Santorum was referring to everyone going to college. Not everyone should go to college. A liberal arts education is not necessary to be successful or to qualify for many jobs. Many people would be better suited going to trade schools.

To answer the original question, some people think everyone should be equal. They hate smart people just like they hate rich people or anyone who is too good at something. Success in this country is frowned upon. Take a look at Harrison Bergeron for a good story about this mindset.

That's a clown response bro.

Ygbygbugbunhijmitdc wrote:

That's a clown response bro.

Thank you for your wonderful insightful response.

agreed.

its valued anywhere smart people are.

Ironic that this thread is on the main page directly under "Help me out: how can a light year be a unit of distance?"

bad as naomi russell wrote:

because questioning why things are the way they are and/or how things work upsets the majority and makes them uncomfortable. thus they lash out at the people asking questions.

This.

You might want to take a look at a classic study on the subject, Richard Hofstadter's ANTI-INTELLECTUALISM IN AMERICAN LIFE:

http://www.amazon.com/Anti-Intellectualism-American-Life-Richard-Hofstadter/dp/0394703170

I'll confess: I know about it but I've never read it. I'm too busy showing music videos to the college students that I teach. :)

rth5 wrote:

Second, I just realized that the main thesis of "The Bell Curve" is being borne out: American society is increasingly being stratified by intelligence. In earlier days in the country, class was determined primarily by wealth; now class is determined, with increasing frequency, primarily by intelligence and its proxy, education (and secondarily, if that, by wealth).

In any class system, it's natural for the large majority to envy/resent the "elite." Well, plenty of people still do that with the wealthy; but more people are recognizing the smart as the elite--and therefore as the majority's enemy.

You've got that reversed in the early days of our country class was determined primarily by one's own efforts (unless one was unfortunate enough to be a slave owned by a Democrat) and not wealth (unless one was a slave owning Democrat).

ioskjsjkhdf wrote:

You've got that reversed in the early days of our country class was determined primarily by one's own efforts (unless one was unfortunate enough to be a slave owned by a Democrat) and not wealth (unless one was a slave owning Democrat).

So there were Democrats back in the days of slavery, huh? Who knew?

fermion wrote:

Intelligence and popularity seem to be mutually exclusive in the US. (Not necessarily in Asian countries though). Why is this? Is there some sort of evolutionary path that would have caused this to be the case?

It's all about fairness and self-esteem now. It's not fair that some people are smarter than others and it's wrong to be smart because you make stupid people feel inferior. This a major problem. We are creating a society based on mediocrity instead of excellence.

The government wants us to be dumber. Why do you think their is fluoride in our drinking water? The fluoride is their to "whiten" our teeth, in reality the amount of fluoride we're ingesting is slowly calcifying our pineal gland (basically the thing that make you think, YOUR SOUL).

Zeitgeist, watch it.

http://vimeo.com/13726978

T.L. the stallion wrote:

The government wants us to be dumber. Why do you think their is fluoride in our drinking water? The fluoride is their to "whiten" our teeth, in reality the amount of fluoride we're ingesting is slowly calcifying our pineal gland (basically the thing that make you think, YOUR SOUL).

Zeitgeist, watch it.

http://vimeo.com/13726978

OK, y'all can stop posting now. We have found this week's winner.

Looked like this could have been a good thread. Surprised it survived this long. I suspect the OP has a few flawed premises. But, what strikes me as more interesting is the two ideas he pairs: intelligence and popularity. Intelligence alone is a complex subject with its own ins and outs. But, popularity seems like a superficial social trait to put side by side with intelligence. Yes, I am being judgemental by saying that, but, why not wealth or power or authority...that is, things that more commonly get correlated with intelligence through character traits. I am not knocking the OP, just noting it was a bit trollish of a set of concepts to throw out there.

I'd be glad to have a serious discussion about popularity and what it means. Intelligence has been talked about to death to the point everyone on this board has their talking points already lined up. But, if we could do a serious discussion about what popularity is and why it plagues people so, I'd love to hear people's thoughts. Not joking or trolling by the way. I really do enjoy discussing novel topics. So, anyone up for it?

There have been numerous studies and articles written about height and success. It appears we have some instinctual predisposition to follow tall, handsome (perceieved), charismatic leaders. Intelligence is not necessarily as critical in this equation as perceived abilty to lead, so we may bolster certain "types" into positions of power, and then these "types" may develop the skills to manage those smarter than them to perptuate this situation. I'm sure there are counter-examples, but they basic equation sets up appearance over substance.

There seems to be cycle that repeats itself in history amongst great nations/states that goes something like this...

Young, intelligent, idealistic individuals having experienced prior persecutions thrive for a country founded in freedom and individual liberty... nation is founded with those principles in mind, and initially prospers as those principles lead to a core of people who live righteously... as that country continues to prosper, well intentioned people devise welfare programs to help less fortunate but unintentionally create an entire class of people dependent on the government... at the same time, middle and upperclass who are doing well based on sacrifices and investments of previous generations lose sight of the vision of those that came before them, and settle into comfortable, self-indulgent lives with no sense of introspection or forward thinking... short term gratification replaces long term gratification and imbues itself in middle and upper class in terms of unhealthy diets, lack of exercise, lack of healthy intellectual stimulation, unhealthy sexual practices, seeking popularity, etc... middle and upperclass who had been the bedrock of the country deteriorate mentally, physically, and spiritually... this deterioration is not apparent to those affected, as they shift from being intellectual curious to being fascinated by what's popular... and thus the slow deterioration of a people and nation... a cycle that repeats itself over and over in history...

Where is the U.S. today in this cycle... over 60% of population overweight or morbidly obese, 25% of teenagers don't graduate from high school, only 22% adults complete at least a bachelor's degree, 1/2 citizens don't vote in presidential elections, 2/3 citizens don't vote in Congressional elections, 25% of kids raised in single parent households, 75% of kids raised in single parent households in minority communities, 50% marriages ending in divorce, 1/3 of U.S. citizens unable to pass U.S. citizenship test, $13 trillion personal debt, over $16 trillion national debt...

How can a nation on the arc described above be expected to consider intelligence, hard work, determination, grit, perseverance, character, etc. more important than popularity? Choice and consequence, cause and effect, reaping and sowing seem to have exited the consciousness of a significant portion of our nation's population worried about the next shiny thing... if our country eventually crumbles due to losing sight of core principles, it won't be the first...

Short answer: Intelligence is frowned upon when it is thought to corrupt moral virtue. Thanks to Rousseau and other thoughtful people we are split over whether morality and intellect go hand in hand (Heidegger being a case in point).

Obviously, most people don't frown on intelligence or the snark on this board wouldn't exist. Not that they are actually intelligent themselves. But they don't frown on it.

twwwwwww wrote:

fermion wrote:

Intelligence and popularity seem to be mutually exclusive in the US. (Not necessarily in Asian countries though). Why is this? Is there some sort of evolutionary path that would have caused this to be the case?

smarter people tend to be more curious. more curiosity leads to more questioning. more questioning leads to less belief in stupid religious institutions.

Americans love their stupid religious institutions.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^This

Most normal people realize intelligence helps you get a better job and bigger paycheck.

This is exactly the problem, intelligence in the US means nothing unless you use it to make money. Scholars, teachers, professors, musicians, artists etc. may be some of the most intelligent people in our society but they aren't considered successful by the majority of our population if they don't make a ton of money. Now Zuckerberg...he's intelligent...well only half as intelligent as he was two weeks ago.

This is one of the truest things I have ever read on letsrun. You won't ever hear the politicians or newscasters say this kind of stuff.