Phelps is NOT the greatest olympian ever...

Yeah a runner COULD theoretically win 11 medals, but it will never happen because, competitive depth debate aside, those 11 track events are too different. A swimmer has the opportunity to do more events that are quite similar. In Bejing, four of Phelps gold medals came in events that ranged from 100 to 200 meters. Please.

And I'm sorry but to me it makes no sense to separate the different strokes into different events. Every swimming event should be freestyle. You use whatever stroke you want to get from point A to point B.

Winning that many golds in gymnastics is just as absurd. Again, the events are too varied. And those gymnasts have to have to razor sharp nerves and focus. To think they could win gold in every individual event is almost unfathomable, even if theoretically possible. I'm not saying you don't have to have focus for swimming, but it's not on the same level of gymnastics and I couldn't be convinced otherwise. For that matter, the level of concentration needed for running is not on par with gymnastics either.

In track, the 100 is very similar to the 200. What if there were a ton of other events also very similar 100 just like how there are a ton of similar swimming events. If Usain bolt won the 80, 90, 100, 110, 120, 130, all the way to the 260 meter dash and won 19 golf medals in one olympics, would he be considered the best Olympian ever?

Don't you win Gold by being the fastest from point A to poont B?

Track Fan 1979 wrote:

Don't you win Gold by being the fastest from point A to point B?

The point was that track doesn't have the 100 meter run, 100 meter crab walk, the 100 meter backwards run and the 100 meter balls-in-hand.

There is only one way to get from A to B.

Greatest swimmer? You can make an excellent case. Winningest Olympian? Of course. Greatest Olympian? Impossible to say. It's apples and oranges. Swimmers have more chances to win medals than other athletes, so in that regard it's kind of a "grade inflated" sport.

If I had to declare a greatest Olympian, I'd pick Zatopek. His '52 distance triple will probably never be equaled.

* wrote:

Phelps is the most decorated Olympian.

Bt greatness is subjective because of other factors.

I will subjectively choose Carl Lewis.

Jesse Owens is the top Olympian ever.

really?????? wrote:

Its not just the number of medals bit the success he has had in all 3 olympics, setting records, american, world, and olympic. A male gymnast could win 7 medals in an olympics. Don't think anyone has come close to that. A t and f runner could win 11 or so medals if they were well rounded enough, and thats just running.

Thanks for bringing the gymnastics thing up.

Check out Vitaly Scherbo's stats:

The dude won 6 golds (including team) in Barcelona while winning the all-around and 4 of the 6 events. Of the events where he did not medal, he was less than one tenth of a point away from a medal on Floor and was close to making the event finals on High Bar. Also, he did win a bronze on HB in '96 and has at least one world championship gold medal in each discipline as well.

His '92 performance was, in my book, the most dominating of a single olympics in any sport. Yes, phelps can get into the argument due to his success over multiple games, but he loses some points because his Mark Spitz has had similar (although lesser) success in the past. Also, if longevity is important to being the greatest Olympian, then Carl Lewis certainly enters into the conversation!

Your actually 100% wrong. Every athlete under the Olympic banner is an olympian. The term 'greatest olympian' is in direct relation to every athlete in the games. The intention behind the phrase is meant to imply that he has under all circumstances achieved the biggest accomplishments of any 'olympian'. That OS the problem. It's repeated ad nauseum and it flat out false

Vitaly scherbo wrote:

i did ok in 1992

beat me to it!

I used to have those olympics on vhs. my brother and I would watch the tape of the event finals over and over and over.

Seb Coe agrees with the OP:

http://www.nbcolympics.com/news-blogs/blog=olympic-talk/post/michaal-phelps-greatest-ever-sebastian-coe-says-no-london-olympics-2012.html

Excellent job, this thread has been reduced to everyone voicing an opinion and the resulting response being "You're an idiot for thinking that."

By the phelps equals greatest logic we have numerous women who have over 10 Olympic medals in swimming. All of mark spits medals in one olympics and chunks of gymnasts with over 10 Olympic medals. Usain bolt or bekele would make the top 30.

It's a fluff way to measure success. At every Olympics there are numerous swimmers competing in events 10-20min separated from one another. This is possible because the events are so similar and there is no impact.

The same 100m event in swimming has 6 differant medal options

I am pretty sure the only two athletes in track and field who have won events in four consecutive Olympics are both field event men: Carl Lewis in the long jump and the late Al Oerter in the discus. Bekele has a chance at three straight in the 10,000, which would be a remarkable accomplishment.

Permit me an off topic observation since the subject of versatility and similarity of events has come up here: Marla Runon was an absolutely remarkable athlete. The press was fascinated by the fact she is legally blind. I am legally blind myself, and the fact is, one needs to see very little to be able to race. What was extraordinary about Runyon, and entirely unappreciated, was that this woman started out in the heptathlon and ended her career as a world class marathoner. I love Ashton Eaton, but I'm pretty sure we will never see him in the Oly 1,500 or in the top ten at the NYC Marathon. Thank you.

Brianruns10 wrote:

If I had to declare a greatest Olympian, I'd pick Zatopek. His '52 distance triple will probably never be equaled.

Good pick, Zatopek did win 5 golds over all.

For best in T&F I like Paavo Nurmi

5 gold in one game

9 gold over all

12 medals over all

I don't think "the depth of competition is much smaller than track."

I think Phelps is just that good...

In all my years of visiting Letsrun this is possibly the best post I've seen. Thank you.

If swimming was only fastest point a to point b, ie:freestyle he would only have a couple of Olympic medals.

If bolt had the 100m, 100m hands on your head, 200m, 200m hands on your head, 200m w/100m hands on head medley, 300m,

300m hands on your head plus plus 3 relays bolt wins 10 gold

really?????? wrote:

What did you do in 1988 or 1996?

Vitaly scherbo wrote:

i did ok in 1992

He won 4 bronze in 96. But his wife was in a ridiculous car accident in 95 or 96. Kind of like a real life Rocky story where he sat by her bedside until she awoke from the coma and then went into training. Really is an amazing story.

Edoardo Mangiarotti was an Italian Fencer. The guy won a medal in every Olympics from 1936-1960. Doesnt have the medal count that Latynina and Phelps have but he certainly had an amazing career.

You could look across a wide variety of sports and find amazing athletes with ridiculous accomplishments that get overlooked because they do a very niche sport, not American, not a Russian or former Soviet.

I agree with Carl Lewis as the GOAT. Better than Zatopeck and Owens in my opinion because the age he competed in was more competitive. The worldwide population and participation in sports was much higher in Lewis's age so he had much tougher competition.