Best Quote from the NYTimes Ryan Hall article: "Hall has yet to win a major marathon."

yes, Ritz did not come off well here. Also the cowards on here really must all be just running 2:04 in practice and not out on the roads.

God Bless Ryan and Sara!! Just keep running, praying, and taking care of each other. You are touching and influencing many lives in a positive way. Have fun in London, and let God fill your spirit as you run your best!

Honestly? wrote:

Concerned Citizen wrote:

The people in that article are nothing even remotely like Ryan Hall.

Au contraire, they share precisely the same delusion.

They all believe in an all-powerful, all-knowing, imaginary deity telling them personally what to do through the voices in their head (and, of course, highly influenced by the men manipulating them from the pulpit).

What they share is being excused from criticism (by most of society) for holding a worldview completely devoid of any rational examination.

Well, I don't know that it's fair to imply Ryan Hall is on par with that kind of b-s in Uganda, but I think you make a great point here: "What they share is being excused from criticism (by most of society) for holding a worldview completely devoid of any rational examination."

That's too true, especially the part about being excused from criticism. I saw an interview with Santorum where he complained about being called a bigot, saying that's mean and not fair because his feelings towards gay folks are due of his religious beliefs. And the interviewer, Pierce Whatzhisname on CNN, totally let it slide and agreed with him.

There's this bizarre mentality that somehow if we cloak our position with the bible, for example, it's no longer bigotry. It's like this get out of jail card. I don't care whether your beliefs are biblically rooted, or rooted in any other ideology. Bigotry is still bigotry.

I hope Ryan Hall has a great run in London; I just hope his "coach" doesn't stone him to death for racing on a Sunday?

I'm an old guy and in my career as a doc, mostly for kids, I've seen so much that I really don't know what to think about religion. If believing in God helps Mr. Hall and makes him feel good about life and what he's doing, I can't really see much harm in it.

But the one thing in the article that really bothered me was the conversation with his wife, when she was discussing how her Achilles tendinitis was faith healed.

Why would that bother me?

Here are just a very few vignettes from my life -

Sitting in a hospital room on the oncology ward with a 5 year old and his mom, watching a Disney movie late one evening. All of a sudden the little boy starts hemorrhaging blood from his mouth and is looking at me with huge eyes and grabbing my hand to help. The mom is screaming and pleading for God to help him. He dies before we can stop the bleeding.

Another night on the same oncology ward, and the 3 month old infant of a devout Pentecostal couple has an inoperable brain tumor. He seizes all night in the mom's arms while she weeps and begs God to save him, while the dad is on his knees praying all night. I can't stop the seizures and he dies at around 6 a.m.

In the ER at 8 a.m. and a little 4 year old girl arrives seizing - she has H.flu meningitis and dies in the ER 2 hours later, and the dad puts his fist through the wall, breaking multiple bones, and screaming at God for not letting him die instead.

Too many to count little kids dying in various refugee camps of you name it - starvation, measles, meningitis, bombs, bullets, cholera, land mines, mutilation, whatever. Countless weeping mothers crossing themselves and pulling their hair, or some just silently weeping.

So when someone tells me God has healed their tendinitis, I just hope it isn't true. I know the faithful always answer the same way, that the ways of God are inscrutable and the like. But I really hope I don't live in a universe where my creator would allow all this suffering, yet heal something as trivial as a runner's leg pain.

What's my point? By stating in an international newspaper like the New York Times that God has healed your tendinitis, the implication is that God has made a value judgment, and he has healed you because your faith is stronger than that of others. If I were one of the parents of the cases I mentioned above, that sort of comment would really hurt.

That was my objection. I pray for the Halls that they never have to face something in their lives that will genuinely test their faith.

Seriously, people around here say they are praying for people, or thinking positive thoughts, or sending positive vibes all the time. It's the same thing. You just aren't saying "God". When you do imagery work, when you imagine the race, say mantras during runs, it's the same thing.

While I do not go in for Christianity or Charismatics, I respect Ry Guy and Sarah for their convictions. One of my closest friends claims to have been touched by an angel, seen a demon in the process of possessing his sister, and believes in aliens. Yeah, W.E.I.R.D. But he's closer to me than my brother. Actually, I consider him to be my brother. Despite our disagreements on the details of religion, faith, and politics we share the same general sentiments on what social justice, faith, family, and moral responsibility are.

Ry Guy's probably not so much different from you than you think. It just so happens that his most polarizing aspects are the most interesting to the media. Positive or negative.

Honestly, I'd really like to hear his thoughts on fly fishing. A private fetish of mine.

Think about it guys, religion is costing Hall 52 days of training per year. By contrast, guys like Rupp only rest for 2-3 weeks per year.

He's missing out on over a month of training compared to his competitors.

Think about it guys, religion is costing Hall 52 days of training per year. By contrast, guys like Rupp only rest for 2-3 weeks per year.

He's missing out on over a month of training compared to his competitors.

Great post, thanks for sharing your experiences as tough as they must have been.

Former Was wrote:

Best Quote from the NYTimes Ryan Hall article: "Hall has yet to win a major marathon."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Meb never won a marathon until he was 34. And now he's won two, NYCM 2009 and the Oly trials 2012. And Meb is still running PR's at 37.

or this wrote:

Former Was wrote:

Best Quote from the NYTimes Ryan Hall article: "Hall has yet to win a major marathon."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Meb never won a marathon until he was 34. And now he's won two, NYCM 2009 and the Oly trials 2012. And Meb is still running PR's at 37.

I hate the be the one to break the news...the Olympic Trials are not part of the WMM.

10sleep wrote:

Todd the sprocket wrote:

The US Olympic Trials are kind of major

Hey Toad, FYI: Meb won the Trials.

I guess your memory does not extend back as far as the previous Olympic Trials.

hall is just another religious person, he has no clues who God is or he would not worship God.

``I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.``

hall thinks he can please his god with his running and his life, only one Man walked on this earth that pleased God.

I'd rather be Ryan Hall than Sammy Wanjiru!

LOL or PrePrefontaine never won an Olympic medal or a major 'thon 5k equivalent. Hasn't stopped the Nike Pre parade. Praise the almighty dollar in the sweat shop factory!

Bobby1 wrote:

I'd rather be Ryan Hall than Sammy Wanjiru!

QTPi wrote:

[quote]hrt wrote:

In any case, Hall is not actually an idiot--he may be *wrong* about some important things,

You're not actually an idiot, either. Just a pompous ass.

He's got no chance in London. I think Hall's days are numbered. He'll be one of those guys we'll look back on and wonder "what could have been?"

Wow, great post. Thanks for that.

I would add one thing that I thought you were getting at with your last paragraph.

I thought you were instead going to say something like, "By stating in an international newspaper like the New York Times that God has healed your tendinitis, the implication is that God has healed you and therefore will heal others if their faith is strong enough. As such, you are actively encouraging the people who ultimately choose to put their faith in God rather than in medical science and thereby allow their children to tragically suffer and die."

Honestly I never really thought about it that way until reading your post. Upon reflection, however, those "cute" comments about God healing my tendonitis.. are not so cute. They are almost criminal.

Best NON Quote from the article -

Dathan Ritzenhiem who failed to qualify for the marathon this year and got throttled by Hall in 2008 at the OT trails in NY.

WOW

Ritz you are trashing a guy who has consistently out performed as a professional? Wow

Also a fan of this, but you'd have to read the entire article to get this far:

Jere Longman wrote:

Among the most interested observers is Alberto Salazar, a former American marathoner who now coaches elite athletes. He, too, is a renowned tinkerer whose Catholic faith played a significant role in his career. Salazar said he had the utmost respect for Hall, but also believed that God wanted his followers to take responsibility for their daily actions and “not depend on him for the answer to everything.”

“I don’t believe God is necessarily interested in what workouts I should give my runners,” Salazar said.

At the same time, he said, “I may not understand how Ryan believes, but what I respect him for tremendously is that he has the guts to share his faith.”