Donn Cabral at Graduation

Nice that Ivies with multi-billion dollar endowments were finally shamed into helping a few working class kids. I, like a previous poster and I'm sure many others, was too young and too poor to benefit from their "generosity."

The other strong move that these schools do to look good is recruit the children of wealthy immigrants to boost up their diversity numbers. Harvard, for example, has a massive number of children of Nigerian immigrants that went to prep schools. I doubt Harvard recruiters spend much time searching for untapped talent in Flint, Michigan. It's a smart move. They need diversity but they don't want hard cases. Colleges know that they need the rich kids and their rich parents to keep that $28 billion dollar endowment swelling. If they graduate a bunch of peace corps volunteers... well...

Keep in mind that however generous these schools appear, it takes an act of God for them to spend more than 5% of their endowments. If other billionaires finagled a way to pay 5% in taxes, Occupy Wall Street would be camping on their front lawn. Even when these schools are "generous" they are cheap as hell.

Actually, a lot of those of Nigerian (and African and West Indian origin) went to Prep schools courtesy of programs like ABC, Prep for Prep, Oliver Scholars, etc. They are not wealthy; they pay little to nothing to attend schools like Exeter and Andover, and then do the same at Ivies. Also, when you're Harvard, you don't have to spend a lot of time poking around in places like Flint if you don't want to; strong applicants from all over the world have a way of finding you; in spite of that fact, the Ivies and the Exeters and Andovers do not rest on their laurels as much as you think. I think that's truer of the next tier of elite schools (prep schools and colleges).

Boston Terrier wrote:

Wrong, it is all a grant. this is not an opinion, it is fact. Estimated total coast is not 58 grand, it's 49.5. This is 100% covered for a family that makes 60 grand or under by "grant."

"A grant does not have to be repaid. Some grants are referred to as 'scholarships' or 'gift aid'."

This above quote comes directly from Princeton financial aid literature. Why on Earth would people argue so vociferously for something they obvious know nothing about. I understand trolls but trolls are deliberate. I think people like "seyta" are not only stupid but rapidly defensive of their right to be so.

How long have you BEEN out of college?

Are you aware that Princeton's tuition with room and board included is NOT 49,500 per year?

DO NOT cite their website for that information, because the website does NOT provide the cost with room and board and student medical insurance included. Are you aware that a university health-plan can cost on average $2000? Are you aware that all attending students are REQUIRED to have Health Insurance? Are you aware that Books and Supplies are NOT included in the cited tuition costs but ARE included on the formal financial aid estimate?

No, you are NOT, because you are NOT an Ivy League student, and never HAVE been. And why do I know this? Because you blindly cited Princeton's WEBSITE as a legitimate source for a financial aid estimate when ANYONE who has actually undergone the process for applying for and receiving financial aid from ANY of the Ivy League schools would know FAR better.

Also, do NOT cite any website that provides costs for any year PRIOR to 2012. NONE of those are accurate, as college costs undergo an inflation rate several times the standard.

Now, do you KNOW what a Financial Aid Package looks like?

Because I don't think you've actually SEEN one.

So why don't I clear this up, because I have ON HAND, a Financial Aid Package to cite.

Brown University

Undergraduate Office of Financial Aid

2012-2012 Financial Aid Award Notice

Initial Notification

Date: 3/30/2012

1. Read this award notice and all enclosures to help you understand your financial aid award. Keep this award for your records.

2. Take note of the message codes (if any) for each award line below. each message code is explained on the back.

3. Review the Terms and COnditions carefully. You will need to acknowledge them when accepting your award.

4. If you are receiving any other aid (e.g. scholarship, assistantship, state grant) that is not listed on this award, please email our office with your name, ID number and the award name, type and a mount.

Federal Pell Grant-EV 2012-13 $2700

Federal SEOG Grant EV 2012-13 $1500

State of RI MAP Grant (est) $4720

Federal DIrect Sub Stafford Loan $3500

Federal Direct Unsub Stafford Loan $2000

Total $14420

Costs

Tuition- $43380

Room and Board- $13329

Medical Expenses- $1890

Fees- $399

Total- $58998

Estimate of Resources

Family Contribution- $46578

Other Resources- $0

Total Need- $12420

Unmet Need- $0

Now, I understand that pieces of shit like you are unwilling to admit when you're wrong and believe that everything you cite from a website is correct, regardless of the fact that ON THE WEBSITE PAGE, they will state that ALL information provided is unofficial and does NOT guarantee an applicant any of the stated.

So notice that provided NEED is calculated as a combination of MANY sources, and NOT just a grant.

The ENTIRE Ivy League has virtually the EXACT same Policy. In fact, if you wanted, I could cite for you aid packages offered from Cornell AND Dartmouth for the 2009-2010 school year as well. The ENTIRE Format is the same.

Oh yes, you can argue that "Brown" is not Princeton, and "Cornell" is not Princeton, and "Dartmouth" is not Princeton, but it would take an utter moron to fail to see that the entirety of the Ivy League possesses virtually the SAME costs each year, and possesses the SAME financial aid policies.

Now let me ask you. ARE you a member of a $60,000 family attending an Ivy League school?

Do you HAVE a hard copy of a Financial Aid package delivered to your home?

If not, then don't even PRETEND to understand the system by which they function, because you DON'T. Incidentally, I do not belong to a family with an income of $60,000 or lower, but I am aware enough of the financial aid processes that occur at these schools to know that EVERYTHING being spewed out of your mouth is worthless trash, because I have heard first-hand recounts of the ACTUAL aid-process for these students. When December and January roll around, this is quite literally ALL that is talked about on campus, because it is the period in which ALL students attending the university on aid are required to begin the re-evaluation and re-application process.

Oh yes, will the WEBSITE say that students with families making less than $60,000 have an "estimated" financial contribution of zero? Why, most certainly it will. But I don't think you understand the word ESTIMATED, and I also don't think you understand that income itself is NOT the only factor that goes into determining the degree of financial aid a student receives. And why do I know this? Because the CSS Profile filled out for EVERY student is THE SAME, and the FAFSA Profile filled out for EVERY student is THE SAME, and anyone who DOES fill out these forms will be PROVIDED with the lines of information required at any school they so choose to send it to.

NY Times article on blacks at Harvard:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/24/us/top-colleges-take-more-blacks-but-which-ones.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

You're getting a degree in 'quotology' instead of a degree in critical thinking." So Sad!

Boston Terrier wrote:

Wrong, it is all a grant. this is not an opinion, it is fact. Estimated total coast is not 58 grand, it's 49.5. This is 100% covered for a family that makes 60 grand or under by "grant."

"A grant does not have to be repaid. Some grants are referred to as 'scholarships' or 'gift aid'."

This above quote comes directly from Princeton financial aid literature. Why on Earth would people argue so vociferously for something they obvious know nothing about. I understand trolls but trolls are deliberate. I think people like "seyta" are not only stupid but rapidly defensive of their right to be so.

Additionally, perhaps I should address what I believe may be your next supposed "point" before you make it.

You are likely at some point going to protest that Princeton's policy is to NOT include any "loans" in need-based financial aid.

Again, of course, this is not correct.

The entire Ivy League follows this so-stated "policy" but the policy itself exists almost exclusively in name only.

They will not factor any Unsubsidized Loans as a part of the total need, but they WILL factor Subsidized Loans in. If you notice, this is PRECISELY why the Total Need is factored in at $12,420 while the Total Aid granted is $14,420. $2,000 of the aid provided is from an Unsubsidized Loan, and thus, cannot be included as part of the need-based coverage as per Ivy League Aid Policy.

In case you do not know (which you probably don't), Subsidized Loans exist such that the interest on the loans will not become active until the student graduates. Unsubsidized Loans in contrast, will have the interest compounded from the moment it is utilized.

When they say that all students will "graduate debt free", it is more of a gimmick than anything else. In fact, if you were a student at ANY Ivy League school and complained that your financial aid package "for some reason" included a Subsidized Loan, the officers would likely laugh at you.

Lol you just got your ass handed to you.

I stopped reading after the actual aid-package was listed, but to Boston Terrier, you probably shouldn't trust most of what is written on financial aid sections on the college websites.

For a fact, I know that when I applied for financial aid at Northwestern, their website's stated policy should have ensured that my family's contribution was no more than $3500 out of about $56000, but there are all sorts of crazy things that can go on during the IRS Data Submission process in the FAFSA that almost ALWAYS work against the applicant.

For instance, the fact that I had a brother who was graduating college the year before I entered deducted $7000 from my first year's aid.

Remember that an estimate is ALWAYS an estimate, and when it comes to college aid costs, estimates may be off by anywhere between $0-$10,000. You just happened to make the naive mistake of actually taking the website seriously.

If this is the official financial aid package, why is the MAP Grant stated to be an estimate?

I thought the packages were set in stone once you received them.

Woww wrote:

If this is the official financial aid package, why is the MAP Grant stated to be an estimate?

I thought the packages were set in stone once you received them.

The MAP Grants are provided by the State Governments, which generally hold policies that are much less stable than those of the Federal Government.

For the most part, if a state goes heavily into debt, none of the stated aid on the official package is secure, and you may not know the actual figures until the fall of enrollment.

That, of course, is another reason that the financial aid from most schools tend to vary from stated values. If you're supposed to receive $5000 from a state grant, it could very well be reduced to $4000, and the matter would have to be resolved by the family rather than the school. This is also the reason that the Unsubsidized Loans are included as an offer. If such a situation occurs, the loans act as a buffer to minimize adverse effects of the changes in aid.

Tigerfan wrote:

Princeton started its changes (no loans) with the class of 2001 and the other Ivies have followed.

Wait, do you mean the class entering in fall 2001 [class of 2005], or class of 2001 [entering fall 1997]????

Aren't Princeton and Harvard's financial aid packages much more generous than the other Ivies? Why are you citing Brown as proof of Princeton's policies?

I just used Princeton's calculator with a family income of 54,000 and this is what I got:

II. Your Estimated Family Contribution

Parents' Contribution $800

Student's Expected Summer Savings 1,030

Student's Asset Contribution 70

-----

Total Estimated Family Contribution $1,900

III. Your Estimated Aid Package is $53,180

Grant Funds $50,280

Student Loans 0

Campus Job 2,900

------

Total Estimated Aid $53,180

This thread has been quite derailed from how we can pass judgement on Cabral on the basis of non-existing flaws since I last checked it... for shame... Not once did I even see a comment about poncho wearing and a fear of water pits. However I was really pleased to see comments bashing the keynote introducer, he's probably an idiot and also probably can't break 20 mins for the 5k. Coincidentally, he's also probably a lax bro.

Exactly what I said, class of 2001.

SO DOES CABRAL GET IT IN OR NOT???!!?

Right. So the Ivies take the kids schooled at Exeter and Andover and claim they are "diverse." If they were truly concerned about diversity, and they believed in the quality of their education, they would be using some of that $28 billion to recruit kids in places like Flint. But they'd rather admit Jonathan Taylor Thomas, give out 4% of their $28 billion to needy families, and beg for more "charity" money from hedge fund managers.

Diversity Statistics wrote:

Nice that Ivies with multi-billion dollar endowments were finally shamed into helping a few working class kids. I, like a previous poster and I'm sure many others, was too young and too poor to benefit from their "generosity."

Diversity Stats:

Just about everything you say reflects tangled logic, lack of knowledge and an underlying deep hostility towards the ivy league. Considering your inability to express yourself in a coherent manner, your youth ("I was too young," whatever that is supposed to mean) and economic circumstances are by no means the most important factors that would have precluded your admission to an ivy.

Your characterization of "Nigerian immigrants" recruited by the ivies as "wealthy" is simply laughable, as is your nonsensical attempt to equate ivies spending 5% of their endowment to tax cheats trying to minimize their tax rates to 5%. Basically, you come across as a dope. Let's leave it at that.

I can assure you the ivies were not "shamed" into helping working class kids. The ivies have on their own volition taken great care to extend their largesse to individuals, who are intellectually exceptional and have evidenced other outstanding achievement, from a whole host of disenfranchised segments of our society. The ivies bend over backwards to admit plenty of these candidates, not just "a few." End of story.

[quote]Seyta wrote: Now, do you KNOW what a Financial Aid Package looks like? Because I don't think you've actually SEEN one. So why don't I clear this up, because I have ON HAND, a Financial Aid Package to cite. [quote]

Seyta, you probably don't want to use Brown as a proxy for the ivies' financial aid policies. Their endowment does not enable them to match the depth and breadth of ivies like Princeton, which has by far the highest endowment per student, or Harvard which has the largest endowment in absolute terms. All ivies are not equal when it comes to financial aid, among other things. Princeton and Harvard have the best financial aid in the country, not only among ivies. As a separate matter, Brown probably shouldn't even be considered an ivy any longer as its intellectual rigor and standing among national universities has declined quite a bit over the years.

he's texting!

there's a whole thread about a few seconds of youtube footage of a college runner doing nothing?

Get a life, people