Jonathan Edwards - 235kg half squat?

SMJO wrote:

Ventolin is such an old deluded pr**k

He ruins every thread with his arrogant and hypothetical "opinions" which he peddles as facts. And he claims to know more about every event than everyone else.

He should be banned or at least sectioned!

Can't argue with any of this.

A couple of points:

1) I agree with everything coach d said about sprinting/weight work/big squats, well said d

2) Ventolin is, well, you know

3) I'm surprised that big squats, or doing squats to failure, or big parallel squats, might just be of benefit to distance runners, as d and runningart suggest!

Although, when I think about it, there are lots of details us posters here are glossing over when we talk about squat and weight routines.

For example, when I talk about a huge squat, I'm talking about a huge squat after years of training--which not only means that the body is well-adapted for this purpose, but also that the technique has been tested and true, that the squats are performed with a free barbell and no other equipment, and that the weight is large with respect to bodyweight, a minimum of 2X.

Lots of these things, maybe all, probably don't apply to the distance runner's training regimen. Of course the weight will be smaller, none of the ancillary muscles will be developed, and the form used will not be one particularly conducive to pushing the greatest amount of weight...and most of all, a free barbell probably won't be used...am I correct?

Doing distance-training squats would probably best be performed on a Smith machine, IMHO, so that all those ancillary muscles aren't over-developed--that's why huge weight guys are bulky everywhere (look at the joints, hips, etc), not just in the body of the big musculature. That, I think, is the point about general fitness, but you certainly don't want to develop that useless capacity in distance runners.

I know it will be a balancing act, and that adaptation will occur with max squats to failure, at an early stage of the training, and that the superfluous development can be minimized. I am wondering how long the cycle is that is recommended for distance runners, and the timing of the cycle.

Although, I'm still having a hard time envisioning Geb pounding out max full squats to failure in the gym!

2x body weight is weak carrots. How can anyone not have the strength to do even that and call themselves in shape?

Watching Diamond League highlights and I see some guys getting close to Edwards' record. Reminded me of what a beast he was! Thought I'd bump an interesting thread.

Hi coach d:

Do you have a better link for the Elite Track article? I couldn't get the above link to work.

Christian Taylor has jumped 8.19 (five years ago!), as well as run 20.70/45.17 in March 2013 and April 2014, respectively (i.e. he'd likely run quite a bit faster if he tried them midseason), but he's still short of 18.29. Pichardo has an incredible lift on his third jump--if he gets it together, I see him as more likely than Taylor to get the record, but there they are right now, neck and neck at 18.08 and 18.06 this year, and the former in Havana.

I feel like Taylor is going to surprise everyone come world champs. Provided the weather complies (no excess tail wind or crazy head wind, no rain) I call World Record.

SlowFatMaster wrote:

Hi coach d:

Do you have a better link for the Elite Track article? I couldn't get the above link to work.

The changed their site since I wrote the post you tried to link from. But before looking at that link, you should look at this one, especially the part where it says that a 20% increase in squat strength results in a 2% increase in 40 meter sprint speed. Heavy squats seem to work better for distance runners than sprinters (transfer effects are better for jumpers but poor for sprinters):

This is the updated link about heavy squats and running economy for distance runners:

accounting for distance behind board & wind/altitude :

edwards 18.29 with 11cm shy & 1.3 = ~ 18.16 basic

taylor's 18.04 with 10cm shy in doha with 0.8 = ~ 18.00 basic

the difference between them was 16cm

however, lausanne 18.06 with 1.1 had poor vid & unknown distance shy of board & much cooler weather than gothenburg let alone doha of ~ 100F

i very much doubt the intrinsic difference now is more than a handful of cms

also, pichardo had a marginal foul in lausanne which looked ~ 18.20 with official 0.3 official

that was toe-sand as good as edward's wr, probably better considering the temperature

I'm so glad I asked

He would have gone just over 90 degrees. He ran 10.48 for 100. He was not a fat thrower, he was a real athlete.

I'm curious if anyone knows the vertical displacement of the current TJ WR. The only data I can find is

http://elitetrack.com/articles/articles-read-2209/

and the Keys to Training article by Kreyer which don't really give this info. My initial rough analysis put it at around 36" for a running vertical jump in the hop section, but I know that's probably way off because:

I also found analysis (slide 49/50) of the vertical displacement and velocity at toe off for the LJ WR:

http://www.slideserve.com/jakeem-mooney/the-biomechanical-wizard-by-gideon-ariel-ph-d

, but it'd be nice to know how high he got, too. At a takeoff velocity of 4.21m/s, theoretically, MP would peak at 36" (v^2/2a), so I doubt JE got anywhere near that.