USATFNE Championship DMR Huge Official Error costs a MAsters team an American and possibly World Record

One other side note on this topic which is a minor pet peeve. I can really recall it from back when Dickinson used to have big HS track meets. There would be 25-30+ people in the 3200 running times anywhere from 9:40 to 11:20 often in one heat. At least 3 times I saw a coach come boiling down out of the upper area or from across the track or from parts unknown to yell at an official because their kids laps got screwed up. Its not that hard to stand there and help especially in that situation where it is 100% guaranteed that someones laps will get messed up. If you arent going to count your kids laps and tell him/her when to stop dont yell at the official if he doesnt get every kids laps right.

I'm pretty sure he DID know he had another lap to run. But it's amazing what you will do (even as part of your brain is telling you not to) when an official tells you to. Particularly when you are in oxygen debt. It wasn't just the masters team that was being told to hand off early but also the GBTC team in front of them, as I understand it.

Think about it. You're tired, you are coming around and then suddenly, there is your guy ready to go. There is the official telling you to handoff. There is the team in front of you handing off. You would naturally start asking yourself, "Wait, did I really run FOUR laps?". With the women in the race and some teams being lapped, you don't know if maybe you are lapping someone but the official is telling you to handoff. Unfortunately you only have a moment to make a decision and it's quite understandable that you would assume you had screwed up and the official was right.

This was also complicated by the fact that the DMR is such an unusual and rarely run event.

yeah i hear you like i said its understandable and def annoying. I still wouldnt assume the official was right though lol.

Maybe middle distance runners are just dumber than long distance runners. haha kidding!

It reminds me of yet another story(ugh enough stories) at UMES in the 5000 i was there by myself and at the starting line the official is like "everyone must have a teammate or coach to count their laps we will not be counting them for you". I obv laughed to myself and was thinking looks like I better stay on the lead lap in this one. But either way you just count down by 400s- plus in long races(or any races obv) if you mess up the counting you have to go through more pain so there is really good motivation to not mess up haha.

I would definitely assume I'm wrong in that situation. Because I probably would be.

A few years ago, I was running a marathon in Pennsylvania. About 24 miles into the race, I am completely depleted, just hanging on for dear life. I'm all alone, none of the guys in front of me were in sight. Up ahead, the course turns right off of the main road I've been following for 2 miles to a side street. The main road does continue one but there are these temporary barriers, put up for the race, blocking the way so you can't go straight. In front of them, is a police car blocking the road also. In front of that is a crowd of people also completely blocking the road. Some of them are holding signs with arrows pointing to the right.

In short, there is absolutely nowhere to go but right. But when I reached them I still stopped and asked, "Where do I go?".

I still laugh when I think about it but it's amazing how your brain stops working when you are tired. Or mine does anyway.

Lol that is a good reason not to do marathons(the only one ive done was on the NCR trail - out 13 and back 13 not too hard to get lost- hopefully)! I shouldnt even classify myself as a long distance runner really.

Heres another funny one from 10+ years ago that your story reminded me of- a local 5k with moderate competition- i was "good" at the time(for me and for a local race) so figured to possibly be leading.

Ran the whole course for warmup it was an out and back. At the turnaround there was an initial cone to turnaround and then a farther set obviously for traffic control to stop the cars. So we start out and im leading by about hm 40m? or so- i get to the turnaround cone and there is one volunteer standing there and i go around it. As im halfway around it the person starts to say something which i ignore and proceed back to win. What i dont know at the time is that they sent everyone else out to the traffic cones to turn around so i immediately gained about 200m on everyone haha. At the awards they apologized to everyone etc etc it was just lucky that i ran the whole course for WU.

Your problem is prob that youre just too tough for your brain- i should prob push harder so i get into those brain shutting down situations. Or just run an ultra or something that would do it.

Ok i think ive talked enough on this thread for a while lol. The poor DMR thread has been totally hijacked with old nonsense stories.

Twas the curse of Kip L until the BAA takes appropriate action for 2010 BAA 5K 17:17 and 2:52 at 2010 Boston Marathon, both fraudulent performances.

Yeah something definitely went wrong with the timing there. I ran the 3k and my result time is 29 seconds slower than what I actually ran. They have one of the women in the 3k listed as a dnf because she stopped a lap short, but I have to say, the officials were guessing at who was done and who had a lap to go. I happen to know at least one other runner in the men's 3k stopped a lap short and his time was recorded.

im guessing the curse of KipLitton swept through Harvard arena yesterday, messing with the timing for all Boston's best USATF runners. i predict this curse will continue until the BAA takes appropriate action for 2010 BAA 5K 17:17 and 2:52 at 2010 Boston Marathon, both fraudulent performances

Now before you guys get a lynch mob together, let me ask you a few questions:

1. What other meet allows athletes to enter an event 5 minutes before a race goes off?

2. What other meet allows athletes to check in AFTER the event seeding has been completed and hip numbers have been issued.

3. What other meet has athletes check in and then disappear and not race in the heat they were assigned and then show up and want to run in another heat cause they were still warming up?

4. What other meet has athletes compete who don't know how far they have to run (true question asked by a runner in the 800).

I can go on. Steve is a kind, gentle man who runs a meet with very limited resources (ie how much did you pay to enter an event compared to the Valentine meet). He tries to reach out to everyone, including walkers, college athletes still trying to get qualifying times, old guys in their 80's and women who don't mind running in the same race as the men to save some time and get home before dinner.

So, I agree that the officials should have counted laps correctly, but let me tell you, it isn't all that easy when you have races where some athletes get lapped twice in the first couple of turns around the track.

When there is such a huge cross section of competitors, help from a team's coach or teammate not running in counting laps might have helped.

I think there was a lap count issue earlier in the meet as I saw a runner loudly tell the official he had x more laps to go and not y as the official was indicating (I did not know the number of laps in discussion). So, in that case the runner did take responsibility.

So my suggestion is to either accept the problems that come with Steve being so generous with pretty much letting athletes come and go as they please, or accept the fact that perhaps next year there should not be any day of the event entries and late check ins and switching events that seem to be the common thread when it comes to all comer meets.

Trying to enter names of athletes into Hytek 2 minutes before a race starts, take pictures of the race and tabulate meet results is a tedious effort and sometimes that pressure gets to the best of these people who help out at a meet.

No one is making big bucks off this meet, but they are providing a pretty good opportunity to run on a very nice track in a very comfortable building.

Back when I used to run our state indoor AAU championship meet, it was on a rickety old 11 lap to the mile wood track with cracks in it and snow and ice all around, because the track was outside.

So, make the best of it and stop complaining so much. The rest of the meet went quite well and was on time right to the end.

And if you come back on to zing me the typical LetsRun way, God Bless You and I hope you don't take out your anger on people close to you....

I agree with this. Remember that at BU mini meet no2? It was the same deal in the last heat of the 3k. There were people running anywhere from like 10min to 13min and only 3 officials and no timing equipment so it was very difficult

you are a joke or you might be or know the guy who f***ed up .Eather way you suck.

This is a good point. Running a DMR at Harvard is kind of pointless anyway, because it is a 220 yard indoor track. Every leg would be anywhere from 2 to 10 meters long, and the whole DMR would be 23 meters long. That's about 3-4 seconds slower than a normal 1200-400-800-1600 men's DMR.

Would an indoor master's world record even be ratified if it is run over an incorrect (longer) distance?

Well if I f+cked up I'd just stay silent and let everyone bash me on letsrun.com! HAHAHAHAHAAAAHHHHH

As a high school coach, I always tell our relay runners that it is their responsibility to count laps for the incoming runner. Why? If the official makes a mistake, our team still gets DQ'd.

The curse of KipLitton swept through Harvard Gordon indoor track arena, messing with the timing for all Boston's best USATF runners.

curse will continue until the BAA takes appropriate action for 2010 BAA 5K 17:17 and 2:52 at 2010 Boston Marathon, both fraudulent performances

simple as that.

A few points, some of which have already been made.

Human error. Couldn't be helped stop crying about it.

Sounds like it wasn't a record anyway.

How can a guy not know how many laps he's run in an 800?????

Officials can be a pain in the ass and on huge power trips. No question, but for every one that falls into that category, there are a dozen of more that work for nothing other than the love of the sport.

ray wrote:

Sounds like it wasn't a record anyway.

It was. Or rather, they were on pace for it with room to spare

wrong results wrote:

My buddy ran 8:50 in the 3k and they have his time here as 9:08? And the guy who finished right behind him at like 8:51 is listed as 9:01? Okaaay...

were they wearing a Garmin?

WasThere wrote:

Now before you guys get a lynch mob together, let me ask you a few questions:

1. What other meet allows athletes to enter an event 5 minutes before a race goes off?

2. What other meet allows athletes to check in AFTER the event seeding has been completed and hip numbers have been issued.

3. What other meet has athletes check in and then disappear and not race in the heat they were assigned and then show up and want to run in another heat cause they were still warming up?

4. What other meet has athletes compete who don't know how far they have to run (true question asked by a runner in the 800).

Those are all bad things, though.

1. Most people would not want to run in a meet that allowed entries up to 5 minutes before a race.

2. If it doesn't delay the start I guess there is not much of a problem for the athletes allowing late check in.

3. The reason athletes missed heats because they were warming up is that the meet organizers did not assign heats in advance and the runners had no idea what time they would be running. How can you decide when to warm up if you don't know when the race is?

4. Funny, but at my last two meets, someone has asked me how many laps "xxx" is.