Let the chaos in Wisconsin be a reminder why we should not put those w/o a college degree into power.

realist realist wrote:

Has any protest in the USA accomplished anything? Lets see there was about 30,000 protests to get Bush impeached and another 25,000 protests to end the Iraq war. How did that turn out???

There's got to be about 141 better ways to accomplish something other than screaming at concrete.

The only time Americans will protest en-masse is when their livelihood or lifestyle is threatened = reduced.

Get Real wrote:

If we tax the living daylights out of these rich folks as you suggest, they will pick up their money and move it out of state/country anyway, and those looking for handouts while maintaining their entitlements will be in worse shape financially.

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What a load of crap. Every time there's some tax discussion some idiot says "we can't tax people that can afford it because they'll move". First off there are high tax states and low tax states already. If there was an ounce of truth to the "they'll move" claim there would be no rich people in high tax states. They are the most mobile people in society and could move in a heartbeat. There aren't mass exoduses of the rich from high tax countries either. The "move" claim is a flat out lie without a single fact to back it up.

The tax rates of the rich are at historic lows and this has resulted in a dramatic drop in quality of life for the rest of the country. For sure making the rich pay proportionally for the benefit they get from a healthy and functioning society won't fix the financial woes of any state or the country, but it can't be written off as part of the solution.

Read more:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=3923846&page=1#ixzz1EWVxYMMh

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+1 In the meantime Wall Street scum hide behind "valid legal contracts" while people trying to move UP the ladder are going to be denied the right to Collective Bargaining.

"land of the free and home of the brave"? NOPE, land of the LAWYERS.

Here's a question for everyone to ponder:

Is UncleB just a terrible troll or is he truly the dumbest poster on this site?

Says it all...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmC26RuO26g

info wrote:

I think alot of people are supporting Walker, but they have to go to work on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday...Don't be fooled by the Liberal media, there are alot of people supporting Walker right now.

Which explains why Saturday when they were free to protest at the Capitol Square Walker supporters were outnumbered more that 10-1?

I bet if you were to poll everyone and make them choose, more people in this country would support Walker. However, most of these people do not have as big of a personal stake in the pension/union controversy, and thus do not act as passionately. This explains why more teachers/union workers are there. The people that show up for protests like the one in Madison will generally be personally affected or are just hippies that want something to yell about.

Besides, even if more people were to support ridiculous public benefits and irresponsible spending, that still wouldn't make it right.

The real lesson is that we should have WAY smaller governments, way lower taxes, and way less tax supported government skrewels.

But I guess the 2nd lesson is that the "People Spoke" when they voted, but that doesn't work except when it's on the side of larger government.

Get Real wrote:

Am I a fool?

I do believe that I am getting paid at a fair market value for the work / responsibilities that I have compared to similar jobs around the country. This is the supply / demand part that I mentioned before. So, I'm being paid at market value. I do have a choice to stay at the company I'm at or try to find something better elsewhere though. I believe that this is not in the thoughts of many public sector folks because their experience is based on entitlements versus the going market value, (which changes over time)and personal performance.

So basically what you are saying is that the average American's value has not increased since about 1960. That may be true, but we are a lot more educated and have a lot higher productivity. But guess where the results of that productivity have gone...to CEOs. So workers are doing a lot more and getting paid essentially the same.

There is not a free market for labor in this or any country. Management controls the market power, the purpose of a union is to level the bargaining playing field, to give a voice to workers so that they actually have some leverage in contract agreements.

The situation with teacher unions is even more dire. The teacher unions are among the biggest advocates for public education in this country. If you want public education to get a chance to thrive, you should definitely support the teachers unions' rights to exist. The real agenda behind destroying teachers unions is to privatize education, which is among the most anti-American ideas I can think of.

The real world has done away with pensions entirely. Governments need to get out of the business too, it's an unsustainable postion to take.

No more pensions for anyone hired within the last 5 years. Everone else is capped at their current # of yrs currently employed, continue to pay those that are currently receiving the pension checks.

Stop teacher tenure, or at the least make it an possbile only after year 10.

People DIED to obtain the right to have collective bargaining. Some of you need to drop the XBOXes and actually read some history on American Labor and the violence that many suffered in years past.

Shameful commentary in this thread.

Ask Older People how dangerous is once was to even join a Union. People died, not that it will help alleviate the poison that FoxNews keeps pumping into the American bloodstream. (...and I am NOT an Obama fan so shut your pie holes and go help Mommy with the dishes.)

Interesting how FoxNews (FauxNews) didn't start going after Unions until a few reporters (Matt Taibbi for one) started shining some light on what Wall Street (most especially AIG) did with Credit Default Swaps and Derivatives to nearly wreck the economy & more research showed how incestuous Wall Street and K Street have become in their relations (carnal and otherwise) with DC. Hello Phil Gramm.

It's difficult to type as I am so angry about this.

And, of course, they hit behind the "Legally binding contracts" canard which the Wall Street Sodomizers used as an excuse for their obscene profits. I suppose a contract reached through binding arbitration carries less validity?

Go ahead, tell me some more Roger Ailes' fairy tales.

Swine.

+ 1

BertNEarnie wrote:

The real world has done away with pensions entirely. Governments need to get out of the business too, it's an unsustainable postion to take.

No, they can be sustainable. Just increase the percentage of salary the employee contributes toward the pension, have less employees, and raise the retirement age.

Name a country that doesn't give its public employees pensions. Name a country where public employees can't belong to unions.

One of the main reasons I got into to teaching was the pension. After watching my father work, and try to live off of social security.

I love my job, and just hope that no one screws with my pension. By the way my pension (Maryland) is only 38% of my last 3 years avg salary.

Remember this if you start messing with teacher pensions, than they are going to want much higher pay. I haven't had a raise in 3 years, and last year they raised our health care contributions. I have no issue with this because of how bad the economy is, but if we return to the good times I would hope I get some raises.

It sickens me that the fat cats on wall street are already back to the giant bonuses, while most are getting reductions.

Yeah, that Bill Gates is such a loser.

2/10, Gnat Turner.

20+ year teacher wrote:

I haven't had a raise in 3 years, and last year they raised our health care contributions. I have no issue with this because of how bad the economy is, but if we return to the good times I would hope I get some raises.

You won't. It was stupid for your union to accept a pay freeze. Do you really think that money will be found to give big raises to every teacher once the economy improves? Don't be naive. When the economy's down, it's the public sector workers who are bleeding the system and whose compensation must be cut. But when the economy's up, the public sector workers are the saps who work hard for shit money. It's a world of spin.

Are you sick of high paid teachers? Teachers’ hefty salaries are driving up taxes, and they only work 9 or 10 months a year! It’s time we put things in perspective and pay them for what they do - baby sit! We can get that for less than minimum wage.

That’s right. Let’s give them $3.00 an hour and only the hours they worked; not any of that silly planning time, or any time they spend before or after school. That would be $19.50 a day (7:45 to 3:00 PM

with 45 min. off for lunch and plan — that equals 6 1/2 hours).

Each parent should pay $19.50 a day for these teachers to baby-sit their children.

Now how many do they teach in day…maybe 30? So that’s $19.50 x 30 = $585.00 a day. However, remember they only work 180 days a year!!! I am not going to pay them for any vacations.

LET’S SEE…. That’s $585 X 180= $105,300 peryear. (Hold on! My calculator needs new batteries).

What about those special education teachers and the ones with Master’s degrees? Well, we could pay them minimum wage ($7.75), and just to be fair, round it off to $8.00 an hour. That would be $8 X 6 1/2 hours X 30 children

X 180 days = $280,800 per year.

Wait a minute — there’s something wrong here! There sure is!

The average teacher’s salary (nation wide) is $50,000. $50,000/180 days = $277.77/per day/30 students=$9.25/6.5 hours = $1.42 per hour per student–a very inexpensive baby-sitter and they even EDUCATE your

kids!

Those pensions and insurances are ending now. Taxpayers cannot afford to pay pensions and medical benefits like you have. The last days of offering those kinds of outrageous perks are over for teachers, cops, judges, etc. You are still free to pay for your own annuities and insurance with your own money like the rest of us.

The Nazi Zionists have gotten Wisconsin! Quickly folks, save what you can and rise up against them!