Could Historically Great Geniuses Contribute to Science Today

As Carver Mead of Caltech observes: "In my experience, whenever I have come to understand a new thing, it doesn't close down to a point, it opens up infinitely in all directions." He quotes Newton on the oceanic horizons of ignorance that expand as knowledge grows. Science is not a zero sum game.

malmo wrote:

Concerned Girl wrote:

Seriously! Think about all the kids that struggled in your intro to calculus class learning calculus out of a book, and then think that Newton didn't learn calculus - he sat down and MADE IT UP (or discovered it, depending on your philosophical views)!

Actually Newton an another guy created calculus at the same time independently.

Actually, it's a little more complicated. The first general statement of the fundamental theorem was given by Isaac Barrow. As I recall, Newton and Leibniz independently set out coherent developments of calculus, but it's not like nothing was known before their work.

Hilbert, Minkowski and the Göttingen school provided a mathematical development of Einstein's work, but it is wrong to suggest that they had somehow developed relativity independently of Einstein; they were reworking Einstein's ideas. As another mathematician once said, once you have smashed open the lock, it is much easier to provide an explanation of how it works.

Rather a lot of the posts in this thread reveal the truth behind the aphorism "a little knowledge is more dangerous than none at all"

Well, look at Duesberg. Or Kary Mullis. Both geniuses, both discovered truth about AIDS, both kicked out of businnes.

The idea that the great geniuses of the past would find little to do if they were transported to the present is refuted by perhaps today's leading physicist Freeman Dyson in the current NY Review: "Science is not a collection of truths. It is a continuing exploration of mysteries. Wherever we go exploring in the world around us, we find mysteries. Our planet is covered by continents and oceans whose origin we cannot explain. Our atmosphere is constantly stirred by poorly understood disturbances that we call weather and climate. The visible matter in the universe is outweighed by a much larger quantity of dark invisible matter that we do not understand at all. The origin of life is a total mystery, and so is the existence of human consciousness...

Even physics, the most exact and most firmly established branch of science, is still full of mysteries."

altoroad wrote:

malmo wrote:

Actually Newton an another guy created calculus at the same time independently.

Actually, it's a little more complicated. The first general statement of the fundamental theorem was given by Isaac Barrow. As I recall, Newton and Leibniz independently set out coherent developments of calculus, but it's not like nothing was known before their work.

So? Nobody has ever invented (or discovered) anything out of thin air. The man himself acknowledged as much: "If I have seen further than others it is only by standing on the shoulders of giants." Newton was still an exceptionally bright guy who contributed greatly to our understanding of the world, and if he were alive today could contribute more.

Maybe he wouldn't revolutionize whole areas of knowledge like he did in his own time, but that wasn't the question - it was only whether he could contribute in a significant way.

b runs wrote:

For example, if Isaac Newton was somehow transported to modern times and dropped off at NASA, could he be brought up to speed and be making contributions to the space program in a year or so.

This reminds me of one of those IQ test questions, where the reader over thinks things and forces conditions on the solution that were never stated within the question. Could Isaac Newton join NASA and make contributions? Absolutely! If he were hired as the janitor tomorrow, emptying wastebaskets, cleaning restrooms and vacuuming the floors, he would immediately be making contributions to the space program. Just because you don't have a pocket protector doesn't mean you're not contributing the success of your company. Too bad we're all reading this from an elitist point of view and missed the obvious answer.

Compare the population in the world now with that of Newton's time. In all probability, there exists quite a few people now with the same level of intelligence as him.

stand up for your rights wrote:

b runs wrote:

For example, if Isaac Newton was somehow transported to modern times and dropped off at NASA, could he be brought up to speed and be making contributions to the space program in a year or so.

This reminds me of one of those IQ test questions, where the reader over thinks things and forces conditions on the solution that were never stated within the question. Could Isaac Newton join NASA and make contributions? Absolutely! If he were hired as the janitor tomorrow, emptying wastebaskets, cleaning restrooms and vacuuming the floors, he would immediately be making contributions to the space program. Just because you don't have a pocket protector doesn't mean you're not contributing the success of your company. Too bad we're all reading this from an elitist point of view and missed the obvious answer.

Your response reminds me of reading comprehension questions where one is supposed to pick the best answer. While your view as what exactly OP's question was is technically correct, I am not sure it is the best answer. Don't worry, many very smart people tend to miss this type of question due to over-thinking!

Concerned Girl wrote:

So? Nobody has ever invented (or discovered) anything out of thin air. The man himself acknowledged as much: "If I have seen further than others it is only by standing on the shoulders of giants." Newton was still an exceptionally bright guy who contributed greatly to our understanding of the world, and if he were alive today could contribute more.

Maybe he wouldn't revolutionize whole areas of knowledge like he did in his own time, but that wasn't the question - it was only whether he could contribute in a significant way.

I wasn't answering the original question. My answer to that question is "yeah, probably".

Newton lived in the days when less than 1% were educated and civilized. Only royalty and castle workers had any sense. Hell, it wasn't until 1200AD that Mongols showed the Rus learned to use chamber pots and separate human waste from the living areas of their mudhuts.

Era wrote:

Newton lived in the days when less than 1% were educated and civilized. Only royalty and castle workers had any sense. Hell, it wasn't until 1200AD that Mongols showed the Rus learned to use chamber pots and separate human waste from the living areas of their mudhuts.

The Mongols did a lovely job with those Chinese and Koreans too, killed millions of them until they learned to stop pooping in their own rice paddies.

jam2 wrote:

Compare the population in the world now with that of Newton's time. In all probability, there exists quite a few people now with the same level of intelligence as him.

This is the answer. They probably could, but there's no reason to think people as smart or smarter don't exist today (especially since we've stopped poisoning ourselves with lead).

The world population in 1650, which is around when Newton was born, was 500 million. Today it is nearly 7 billion, which is a 1400% increase. Education is better, and conditions among the non-rich are generally good enough that being poor doesn't mean you will be borderline retarded.

We probably have many people on Newton's level, just doing very difficult work. He was doing work that a high school freshman can understand - most PhD.'s struggle with the material today. These guys wouldn't be especially likely to revolutionize science.

yyy wrote:

The smartest people are typically working on string theory (if they are not mathematicians) and not neurologists.

Way too abstract for medical doctors.

The really smart people stay well away from string theory.

The amount of boneheadedness on this thread is mindblowing. For one thing, Newton was nothing compared to the likes of Plato, Maimonides, Spinoza, etc etc.

For another, the board demonstrates that they hold fast to a blind notion of progress that neither respects nor understands ancient or pre-modern (or even early modern) thought.

Some give credit more so to the Renaissance when Europe effectively forever left the primitive era and caught up with civilizations of Central Asia, Black Africa, and East Asia. The Great Khan and his Mongols had transformed the gene pool of Europe from 1300AD re-seeding the vast area of Persia, Turkey, Russia, Poland, Baltics, etc. laying the foundation for the Renaissance with a new hybrid Euro-Mongol Race. The point is, how can we today expect the conditions which gave birth to the Renaissance ? We can't wipe out 85% of the population then wait 400 years for the fruits to blossom with the likes of Netwon, Liebnitz, L'Hopital, etc. without entering the space of science-fiction writers ;-)

Owl of Minerva wrote:

The amount of boneheadedness on this thread is mindblowing. For one thing, Newton was nothing compared to the likes of Plato, Maimonides, Spinoza, etc etc.

For another, the board demonstrates that they hold fast to a blind notion of progress that neither respects nor understands ancient or pre-modern (or even early modern) thought.

LOL!

The Truth Seeker wrote:Also I will say this. In general, geniuses are not known for their textbooks (ability to synthesize other people's material) but their incite (their own paradigm shifting discoveries/theories)

you clearly are clueless about wright

he was one of the leading neurophysiologists of his era

he proposed a theory involving neurotransmitters which a rival contested

the rival was awarded the nobel prize for his conflicting work

later, wright's work was proved to be correct & not the rival's