Food Stamp Explosion

The cheeky comment was an attempt at humoring a kid but I see you are sincere and not a kid so it was unwarranted and I apologize. I contend you struck no nerve. I simply thought the totalitarian comment extreme.

I have advocated no regime change nor any coercion. I do advocate a questioning of fundamentals. And I vehemently disagree with you about relative truth or morality.

The truth can be ascertained. As the old saw goes ' one is entitled to their own opinion, not their own set of facts'. The discernment of morality on the other hand requires the analysis of the facts and a judgment about what is good and for whom and for how many and more importantly, was anyone harmed and could it have been avoided.

In our climate, with so much rampant skepticism, anti-intellectualism, gullibility, stoked fear, media noise, relativism, and frankly, poor quality critical thinking about sources, it can be difficult to argue facts anymore when even those are questioned. So if I were to advocate anything outright it would courses for all citizens in civics, logic, and ethics. This would help us as an educated citizenry evaluate what are authoritative sources and facts, for those who do not directly engage in primary research/knowledge making, and moreover, we would have constructive communications in a common language without all the hysteria of today.

Which leads me to your point that is well taken. Today's screed has been around a long-time. What is different is that there was some credibility in the marketplace of ideas. Cable channels are propagandists today and the public simply regurgitates. So while it is true that today is same in terms of noise, it is also true that noise affects the quality of debate and the programming of public political sentiments to the point where people will vote even against their own interests.

I think you are right people see nuance in their opponents, but the extremes dominate while the moderates sit out. And frankly, how does one argue with the crazies of either side? This is a major problem. What do with the crazies? What to do with the politically illiterate. With the gnashing class? If we can communicate then perhaps we can question the fundamentals: what kind of society do we want to be. I would hope you agree that we are not an equitable one. I would hope you don't defend the hope of enriching each subsequent generation a bit more at the Holy Grail of American progress. We must certainly be more about that. This country was founded on ideas, not infinite consumption.

And as for redemption, the word has both a religious definition, and a secondary one that is the same as the first, except it is secular. The American Dream today is bankrupt, but it is not irredeemable.

My plan to redeem society is to educate it. To tone down the noise so an frank assessment of our values can take place. To decide whether we are our brother's keeper or is it everyman or himself. In terms of institutions and government, the fear of it is hysteria. Progressives want excessive government and a nanny state no more than conservatives. Progressives do however understand the necessity of having government to provide services that we as a society elect in line with our moral priorities including whether we are a country that is also a community, or a country and government that is solely in service of business.

Frank is correct. Food stamps were so 1980s

The reason so many are on them is that it is much easier to qualify than it used to be. Our standard of living has improved so fast that what people considered low to middle income is now below the poverty level. There is also less stigma associated with being on assistance. We weren't poor, but grew up in a family where you ate a lot of bread, potatoes, and inexpensive meat like hot dogs and bologna. We qualified for reduced meals at school and was probably close for food stamps for a family of 4 on 1 income, but we never thought of taking it. I did gladly accept all the assistance I got to help pay for the first couple years of college. I was out of state and my parents could send me $20 about every 10 days. I ended up working full time and going to school full time the last 3 years to finish my degree.

Just wait until the OP realizes how much families with kids get back from their tax credits. We have tenants who have left and left behind previous 1040s. It is not rare for a family to get back $4,000-$5,000 without having to pay in any taxes. This $300-$400 a month is really just a replacement for "welfare" being taken away a few years ago. In other words, it really wasn't taken away at all, just hidden so the average middle class family couldn't find it.

Supplemental Nutrition Assist wrote:

Just wait until the OP realizes how much families with kids get back from their tax credits. We have tenants who have left and left behind previous 1040s. It is not rare for a family to get back $4,000-$5,000 without having to pay in any taxes. This $300-$400 a month is really just a replacement for "welfare" being taken away a few years ago. In other words, it really wasn't taken away at all, just hidden so the average middle class family couldn't find it.

exactly. i'm still waiting for SserPrun95 to respond on this point. earned income tax credit, child tax credit, subsidized federal student loans, federally guaranteed student loans, federally guaranteed mortgages, home mortgage interest deduction - the vast, vast, vast majority of americans accept some sort of assistance from the federal government. and a large portion of middle class families - including white families - accept refundable tax credits like the earned income tax credit and the child tax credit.

the comment of SserPrun95 - "It's just a mindset where inner city kids who grow up around these handouts see nothing out of the ordinary about receiving them." - is way more offensive and/or ignorant that s/he realizes. it's very much a mindset of white, middle class suburban kids that they are entitled to government handouts too.

Food Stamps actually help sales of domestic farm products which help the economy. Unlike Farm Subsidies which are funded by budget deficits floated to Saudi and Chinese bank and waste precious US Govt resources.

And speaking of handouts, the rich in this country are paying 1/2 the tax rate that they paid in the '70's and the economy was booming. If you look back to whenever the rich have high tax rates, the country is economically strong. So, now the rich have the lowest tax rates in 50 years and the economy can't get any traction. Does anyone have a clue yet???

Stronger unions (socialism??) so people can take care of themselves without having to hold more than one job.

I know two guys just collecting unemployment for as long as they can - they both say that when it runs out they will get jobs.

Nice lessons this gov't teaches.

The Real UncleB wrote:

Concerned For America wrote:

Last month, 42.9 million people in the United States were on food stamps.

How did our private economy get to the point where 42.9 million people need food assistance on a monthly basis?

What is the solution?

.

Start taxing the uber rich. Take a look at what the tax rates on federal income tax brackets and the capital gains tax in the 195os while our economy soared and we had plenty of dough for education, infrastructure.

Combine that with cutting 2/3rds of our war machine budget and put Israel off the dole while we are at it and this country could return to economic greatness

how about this:

start taxing everyone, not just the uber rich. take a look at how families making under 50k don't pay any federal income taxes but consume huge amounts of entitlements.

Cutting the defense budget by 2/3rds would throw the world into chaos, which would require a huge standing army, thus employing everyone. Problem solved.

And yup, cutting that $3 bn of aid to israel would help for about 10 seconds.

Literally every black family I know was on or is on food stamps.

I remember when it was actual cards, and my grandma always said the green ones were the only ones that mattered. When I was a lot younger I thought they were actual money.

We have cards now, we even go to Costco with them. Its pretty sweet, I figure morally its acceptable because of all the Farm Subsidies and the Budget deficit, might as well get the government paying for some of your living expenses.

I disagree, I don't think we should change the tax rates on the super rich.

The problem is never tax rates, its enforcing collections amonst these people, and stopping lax loopholes and shelters.

Tax rates don't have to change one bit. Just enforce the rules already on the books and this country would have another 100 Billion in tax revenues every year.

We also need to tax corporations the same, because so many Billion dollar corporations aren't being taxed, even though they are making hundreds of millions in profits, alot of the that off of bailout money.

Also, no company that sends a single job overseas should be allowed to get any tax benefits whatsoever.

As it stands, almost every fortune 500 company has offshored jobs and collected tax breaks at the same time.

This has got to stop. Of course I know these 3 things will never happen. So, I don't think you people should be mad at the poor people who can't afford to eat. You should be mad at the cause of this problem, and its not poor people who are discriminated against.

The Real UncleB wrote:

Start taxing the uber rich. Take a look at what the tax rates on federal income tax brackets and the capital gains tax in the 195os while our economy soared and we had plenty of dough for education, infrastructure.

Moron, prosperity in the 1950s was because every other industrial nation had been bombed into ruins. If that were not the case, then mere stock market decline (1929-1931) that FDR turned into the Great Depression (1932-1939) with his socialist treasonous policies and insane tax rates would have continued for who knows how long.

Black Kid wrote:

I disagree, I don't think we should change the tax rates on the super rich.

The problem is never tax rates, its enforcing collections amonst these people, and stopping lax loopholes and shelters.

Tax rates don't have to change one bit. Just enforce the rules already on the books and this country would have another 100 Billion in tax revenues every year.

100 billion is nothing against 1.4 trillion and rising deficit. The real money is to be made cutting all the funding that illegals drain from education, health care, law enforcement, etc.

The illegals lower costs almost as much as they take from entitlements, health care, etc.

The drug trade also provides support to the U.S dollar so it remains the world's reserve currency.

Illegals are not the problem. The problem is enforcing tax laws already on the books.

100 Billion from Rich individuals avoiding taxes...

+ 500-1 Trillion from Corporations hiding accounts/offshoring/getting undue tax breaks

Yes, it wouldn't make up all of the deficit but it would go a long way and it would support the dollar.

You can't justify kicking out Illegals when they literally are the ones who make food cheap in this country, along with Farm Subsidies we all pay for.

You're just like these middle class people that scream and cry about Illegals, welfare, and socialism when altogether they cost 1/10th of not enforcing taxes the richest people and largest companies in the U.S.

The reason you think this is because these Rich people, and corporations own the media you listen to and watch everyday.

I expected to see this thread started 2 years ago. Not much has changed since then.

Except for 12 million more people getting food stamps!

Or just stop support of Nazi Israel. That would save taxpayers $1 Trillon per year.

It is hypocritical to support one nation in the middle east, and not another, while proclaiming you want 'peace in the middle east'.

But it wouldn't save 1 trillion, the only thing that would save that much is actually taxing companies like Exxon and Walmart and Amazon what they should be taxed already.

The big oil companies are using green iniatives for tax benefits.

Walmart happily destroys millions of American jobs and ships them to china.

Amazon doesn't even pay its sales taxes in the states its in.

Billions are lost everyday. This nation would almost be solvent if it wasn't for the corporations not paying their due.

And to think the argument is about poor people trying to eat, like somehow they're the evil ones. Its amazing how warped most of America is.

We already tax the working poor way beyond their ability to pay via sales taxes, fees, gas taxes, taxes on booze and cigs, taxes built into items we purchase, payroll taxes, lotteries, state income taxes, real estate taxes, and in a ton of other ways. A millionaire pays the same $1.00 in gas tax as does the person making $20k, he pays 1/5oth as much as does the person making $20k in terms of % of income.

Less occupying of countries will make us safer. We do not need thousands of nukes to fight a Sovier Union that has not been around for 20 years.

I dunno about you, but as an american who has to pay lots of money for health care and college educations, I don't see what any other American would support our sending more than $8 million per day to a nation that has free universal healthcare and free college education for its citizens....unless that American cared more about the people of that foreign nation than about our own citizens

re; corporate taxes:

I am all for simplifying the tax code - a flat tax seems to work very well.

But US corporate taxes are already very high compared to our competitor nations:

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/22917.html

Raising corporate tax burden and then complaining that they take jobs overseas is contradictory. Raise corporate taxes and even more jobs go to Asia and Mexico. Lower taxes and more jobs will stay here.

You choose.

But your other argument is to just make them pay what they owe. Which is true - the loopholes and credits are way overdone and abused. We need a massive overhaul of both individual and corporate taxes to clear out the clutter.