Marathon Training Thread - Week Ending 12/5

Man, this thread is the best-kept secret on all of Letsrun.

NoleRunner- Congrats on the PR and thanks for the hilarious report. I really know what you mean when you say you'll never take a race seriously again. In my 20s I always got way too psyched for races - couldn't sleep the night before, was obsessive complusive about every little detail. Never did me any good. Now I'm probably too laid back...

des - tough luck, but still a positive progression you should feel good about. The marathon really is a high-wire act. So tough to judge where that red-line is on any given marathon day, and of course, you can't go out the next week for a do-over if you're wrong. I loved your detailed race report.

pablo - Simply awesome. Keep it up!

You

des wrote:

Post race thoughts: I don’t really know what I could have done differently in the race or my training to prevent what happened in the last 6 miles.

I can't comment on your training, but I can comment on your race execution. From reading your report I don't think you executed perfectly and probably with the same level of fitness you could have got a faster time just with better execution.

First mistake - not starting your watch at the gun.

Second mistake - first mile in 5:47 - I don't know how downhill it was, but likely that this mile was a bit too fast considering you had done a one mile shuffle warm-up and you were aiming for 6s. It's difficult to get the first mile right but if you are aiming for 6s a first mile of 6.13 makes more sense than a first mile of 5.47.

Third mistake - picking things up when you see your girlfriend at mile 4, maybe not serious but you were on pace at mile 3 so shouldn't be thinking about picking things up at this stage.

Fourth mistake - this is the most serious one, miles 9 10 and 11 you sped up to catch a pack. I think you should never really do this in marathons, packs can screw you over more often than not and chasing them down when you're behind them is a real mistake. Only run with a pack if you end up in one and they are doing exactly your pace (+/- a couple of seconds).

Sure, you did great still and well done any everything, but I reckon you could still have executed better.

"In regards to my comment "I will never take another race seriously again." There is truth to that comment. Although I don't plan on getting no sleep and partying my ass off before all my races, I will be taking racing less seriously. As some here know by following my training, I took Chicago Marathon training ultra-seriously and end up with a DNF. I also ran a HM (Virginia Beach RnR) 5 weeks out in 1:15:40. A full 1:17 slower than Vegas."

To NoleRunner,

I love this attitude! I've been a WWPD (what would Paula do?) man too long myself and I don't think it helps!

Relaxing can make you faster and is certainly more fun!

Some Coked Up Brit - Thanks dude! My friends have always told me I care too much about my races and when I don't care about a race I end up running well. I have always had a hard time believing this, but after Vegas I am convinced! haha

BTW - I looked back at the results. I actually ran a 1:15:53 in Virginia Beach. So, I full 1:30 faster in Vegas.

NoleRunner - Seriously dude, those pictures are pretty gnarly. The video they have is even better...I can definitely tell you put all you had into that race. And I totally agree with your relaxed attitude before races. In high school and college, I would put so much pressure on myself before races...I'd get so nervous to the point of throwing up beforehand and it usually led to sub-par performances. I simply don't feel that kind of pressure anymore with road races. I don't know why but track and XC are just more nerve-wracking. In the end, it's just running and it's supposed to be fun...if it wasn't at least a little enjoyable, we wouldn't do it.

Obviously, I still take running VERY seriously, but I don't let it get out of control. I probably take training more seriously than racing. That way, I can be more confident on race day knowing I've put in the work to make it a good race.

I think you're right about training more consistently. That's probably the main reason for my recent jump in times. Mileage is great, but consistent training is better. I used to regularly take 2 weeks off every so-often. Now, if I need a down period, I just run very easy for a couple of weeks...I don't lose fitness and I actually feel better than if I had taken time completely off.

des - There is some great advice given from Coked up Brit. I agree with the majority of what he said...though I'll elaborate a little on pack running. I always try to find a pack in marathons, but you still have to run YOUR race...that is very hard to do in packs. If the pack is surging or picking up the pace early on, you have to have the discipline to let them go if you're not ready for it. Don't worry about about poor race execution...not very many of us (including myself) have executed a marathon perfectly.

I've made a decision guys: I've decided to run the Disney Marathon...which is a little over 4 weeks away. I figured I'm on a string of good races and I'd like to see if I can carry this over to the marathon. I'm gonna shoot for 2:28 and if I blow up...who gives a sh!t. I've taken this week pretty easy intensity wise and will have 2.5 weeks of workouts before tapering.

NoleRunner - This means no Matanzas 5k for me...sorry. But I'm still gonna be up in Jax next weekend for the marathon. When you get the chance, shoot me an email and we can try to set something up. One of my good friends from high school lives in Jax now (and I have a feeling you already know him) so I already have intentions of meeting up with him.

pablo wrote:

I've made a decision guys: I've decided to run the Disney Marathon...which is a little over 4 weeks away. I figured I'm on a string of good races and I'd like to see if I can carry this over to the marathon. I'm gonna shoot for 2:28 and if I blow up...who gives a sh!t. I've taken this week pretty easy intensity wise and will have 2.5 weeks of workouts before tapering.

Hell yeah, Pablo! As you noted, you have nothing to lose and it is smart to try to capitalize on your racing fitness while it's at its peak.

Pablo, sometimes it's best to strike when the iron is hot.

My marathon will have start temp of 42 (36 wind chill) and at the end, it'll be around 50 (45 wind chill). What would ya'll typically wear? I'm debating a singlet with shorts, and then tossing away the gloves when they get too hot. Think I should use a tight compression t-shirt underneath?

Pablo, sometimes it's best to strike when the iron is hot.

My marathon will have start temp of 42 (36 wind chill) and at the end, it'll be around 50 (45 wind chill). What would ya'll typically wear? I'm debating a singlet with shorts, and then tossing away the gloves when they get too hot. Think I should use a tight compression t-shirt underneath?

pablo - You signed up for the Disney Marathon! >>

No worries about Matanza's. You'd be stupid not to utilize your ridiculous fitness. Get some in Orlando!

Consistency is key. I plan on being super consistent over these next 2 years. Maybe I'll finally get fast!

I'll shoot you an email sometime this week. Looking fwd to watchin Jax Back Full and Half. Actually might run the half myself. I dunno...

blaznbison24 wrote:

My marathon will have start temp of 42 (36 wind chill) and at the end, it'll be around 50 (45 wind chill). What would ya'll typically wear? I'm debating a singlet with shorts, and then tossing away the gloves when they get too hot. Think I should use a tight compression t-shirt underneath?

If it were me in those conditions, I'd go with a regular singlet and shorts...with gloves, arm warmers (or old tube socks to ditch), and a beanie. I'd likely end up ditching the beanie but would probably keep the gloves and arm warmers the whole way.

Remember, I'm also from FL, so that type of weather is cold to me, but not cold enough to wear a compression t-shirt (I assume you mean an "underarmor" like material) underneath.

Road Racer wrote:

And, reading through your report I was thinking maybe you didn't fuel up during the race. But, clearly at the end you say you took 4 1/2 gels. That's plenty so that wasn't the problem. How much did you drink during the race? Persistent muscle cramps and the fact you said your stomach was in some distress (mile 23) I'd think you were a little dehydrated. Anyway, I'd be interested to know how much and how frequent you drank...

I only had 3.5 gels (@ 7, 13, 18, and 1/2 @ 22ish). I tried to have water at every water stop which was usually every 2 or 3 miles. Other than the amount that sometimes splashed out, I made it a point to drink everything in each cup. A few times I took the electrolyte drink by mistake (they were in the same colored cup, and it wasn't always clear what the volunteers had), but I still finished the cups in those cases.

Perhaps, I was a bit dehydrated. After being cloudy early, the sun came out in the 2nd half and temps increased but nothing too drastic. It was still only in the 50s. I am thinking my quads just tightened up from the pounding of all the hills.

Thanks for the input on my race execution.

Not starting my watch was unfortunate, but I didn't just forget. I actually pushed it as I crossed the line, or at least pushed near the start button. I think I didn't hit it hard enough or I missed the button. At least after this expereince, I'll never push start on my watch without verifying that my watch started after it.

with regards to mile 1 and 4. I just reviewed the course elevation chart, which you can find here

. Mile 1 is a pretty intense downhill with a short uphill and then some more downhill. You are right though. I was hoping to go out in 6:10 actually, but I just didn't execute. It was probably a combo of the downhill and getting caught up with some of the people around me. I actually saw my girlfriend in mile 3 now that I remember, and I ran 6:03 on that mile so that wasn't it. I don't realy know what caused the 5:51 on mile 4, but it looks like it started with a pretty intense downhill as well.

When I started focusing on the pack, they were already coming back to me when I was on pace. I probably should have excercised more restraint though, and went after the people falling off one by one a bit more gradually.

Thanks for all the advice. I am still pretty new to the marathon. It is frustrating to have to learn all of this in the race itself, and then have to wait so long to give it another shot. But I'll have all of this in the back of my mind when I run another.

blaznbison24 wrote:

Pablo, sometimes it's best to strike when the iron is hot.

My marathon will have start temp of 42 (36 wind chill) and at the end, it'll be around 50 (45 wind chill). What would ya'll typically wear? I'm debating a singlet with shorts, and then tossing away the gloves when they get too hot. Think I should use a tight compression t-shirt underneath?

CIM had pretty much identical temps, but no windchill. I went with a singlet, shorts, arm warmers, and gloves. I tossed the gloves around mile 18 when the sun came out. I didn't start with a beanie, but I think if the race had a windchill in the 30s, I probably would have and then tossed it when I warmed up.

If you have to get to the starting line early (which you might not if Rocket City offered you some sort of seeded start due to your fast goal), just make sure you have some warm clothes on the line. I had sweatpants and a sweatshirt that I tossed about 2-3 mins before the race.