Has anyone thought about leaving the US and moving to another country?

About teaching english in Asia. I've heard about some discrimination over what types of teachers are preferred. If you're relatively young (20s early 30s maybe) and white, then that is good. Is this true?

I'd be curious to know how people just up and move to another country without have connections, a sizable amount of savings to live off of, or having a job lined up through their employer.

Let me tell you something about Korea - idiot foreigners in the 24-29 "world traveler" bracket have ruined the reputation of the foreign population here. The typical American English teacher rolls into Korea with no teaching experience, no Korean speaking ability, and on a quest of drunken entitlement and superiority.

It's a complete mess. Hagwons are full of soju hangover drunks teaching 5-10 year old kids. These "teachers" couldn't care about teaching a proper lesson or any sort of educational goal. They are more interested in arguing with the boss about small pay, tax deductions, or why they have to pay their cell phone bill. These people are absolute losers.

Korean kids roll through like 4-5 years of English and still have little to no comprehension of the language. It's unbelievable. The parents are outraged when they find out that waygooks have been passing kids through books just to get paid and leave - "the next teacher will fix it." The exact problem is people moving here to teach that think teaching is something cool to pass the time for a few years while they travel.

Don't move to Korea unless:

(1) You are a real teacher

(2) You will learn to speak Korean

(3) You can respect another culture and not complain "in America ... blah blah blah" every 5 minutes

(4) You will not act like a complete moron which consists of: passing out drunk on the subway, cat calling random groups of Korean women on the street, fighting the locals, abusing Confucian ideals (i.e. ripping off "older brother" every day), etc.

This place is starting to tighten up and realize what is going on. Please don't be another American giving our country a horrible reputation. The resent and racism that is going on now is a direct backlash to idiot foreign teachers treating this country like a frathouse playground.

foreign countries (save Canada) are scary. have you ever seen 'locked up abroad?'

I find it most humorous how ironic it is that you Americans are looking to "get out" and find a better economy somewhere else in the world. For years you Americans have bitched and whined about poor Mexicans coming into the United States, but it goes two ways my good folks. If Americans would just look around you would see that Americans have always taken jobs from others around the world. When I grew up in Germany, I would see all the Xerox and IBM buildings all over the country. When I learned that Americans had most of the top jobs at these companies, it surprised me. Now that I am older, as I travel the world, I see retired Americans have moved to all sorts of places in droves. Mexico, Costa Rica, Belize, Brazil, Ecuador, New Zealand, Thailand, Cambodia (for starters) have been flooded with Americans, some retired, some just getting out of the US). It would be interesting to know how many million American citizens are now living outside the USA. My hunch is that the number is larger than the number of Mexican citizens living in the USAtaking advantage of places

That's one perspective. In general though it's not as bad as you're making it out to be, I know a lot of people (both from my university position and social contacts) who were very conscientious about their work. And the soju hangover going into work is certainly not confined to the foreign population, in fact I'd say it's pretty normal in korean companies the day after a "hway-shik" (romanizing korean sucks). Maybe you just hang out with the wrong group of people. And you think the american teachers are to blame for korean kids' incompetence at english? Korea has developed one of the most complicated, least efficient learning systems in the world, as you should well know if you've lived there and see kids studying til 11pm every night in institutes yet by the time they graduate high school they still can't form a grammatically correct english sentence or differentiate their way out of a paper bag. Not all of course, I've met plenty of young koreans with excellent english and quantitative skills, but it's not thanks to the fine pedagogy there...and out-of-the-box thinking is virtually non-existent. Mind sharing what you're doing in korea? And how is your korean, just curious.

Simone wrote:

A specialised degree from some of the best US programmes should help one fit in the new culture.

You aren't American anyway.

Cambodia?? Where the heck are all these droves of expat Americans in Cambodia? Have you even been there?

Sorry, Cambodia was not a good example....would it please you if I replace it with any one of 10 other countries throughout the Caribbean, Central America? Yes, I've lived in Pnom Penh. Have you been there lately? American tourists seem to be swarming the country, though they may not be living there.

I will be finishing my masters degree this year and would like to teach English overseas. Would having a masters degree help me get a better job in south east Asia?

What kind of pay could I expect?

There are lots of teaching jobs in China, but the pay may not be all that good. Look at it as a cultural experience. If you want good pay, go back to school and study Law or Business or Computer Science.

I guess I was just nit-picking, especially as I have been to PP recently and the permanent american expat population was, as far as I could tell, quite low (especially compared to a place like Bangkok). I'm not sure what you're trying to get at, but I think all the cross-border movements are generally a good thing as in this age of instantaneous communication and multinational entities, as well as high-tech weapons, having a broad cultural knowledge can help us understand one another better.

And to the guy above, yes a masters degree will make you more competitive for the more "desirable" jobs, such as at a university or international school.

Definitely in it for the experience, but I was just curious if having a masters degree would increase the pay you would receive overseas.

How is teaching in Thailand compared to say, Japan or Korea?

Whoops, Kartelite didn't see that reply.

How difficult is it to get a job at a university and what kind of hours would you be required to work?

I don't know too much about teaching jobs in SE Asia, but I have known people who have taught in China and in Japan. I believe that most of the China jobs are filled through "agencies" who locate English teachers. I doubt that a Masters degree would mean much difference in pay to teach in China, but it probably would in a place like Japan (beware the extremely high cost of renting).

Korea is the easiest. You get your airfare paid, housing paid, and make 2.1-2.5 million won per month. Jobs are still easy to get.

Don't teach English in Thailand. The pay is really low, the working conditions are poor, and you will be treated like a disposable falang. A lot of guys try to extend their sex tourism teaching English in Thailand; so, the market is saturated (with dirtbags).

Teaching in Japan is more competitive than Korea. Good jobs require a little more experience and education.

Of the three places I'd say:

Japan is the best place to live but you'll likely break even each month.

Korea is okay because you can save money and the quality of life is decent. It wears you down, though.

Thailand is the best place to live but a horrible place to work. Work somewhere else and take your holiday there.

Sorry, meant to say: Japan is a better place to live than Korea. Thailand is better than Japan and Korea.

I think pay at international schools in Thailand can be quite good ($40,000+), I had a friend who taught with his wife at a school in Bangkok (though not English language, the courses were taught in English).

Besides that though, generally the pay is a lot lower compared to Korea or Japan. Of course the cost of living is cheaper, but you won't be able to save much. The reason Korea has become the destination of choice is that the salary is close to Japan but the cost of living is lower, and Korea seems a little more westernized (and the english is better).

In Korean universities, the best jobs are those that pay $4000+ per month for 9-12 classroom hours a week, two fifteen-week semesters per year with paid vacation. But you generally need to have been in the system for a while and built up your CV, perhaps even have some relevant research experience. My job was with a university language institute, which usually incorporate the english, korean, and other minor language departments into one center. Some of these aren't much better than private institutes, but I was fortunate to work at a good one. Base pay (16 teaching hours per week, about 34-36 weeks per year) was about $2500 with free housing, but you get other bonuses and with a couple odd tasks my take-home pay averaged over $3000 per month, which is more than enough to live comfortably there.

Japanese universities are a different pony. Basically, they're more competitive, but if you end up landing a position you can be making $60k-$70k your first year. Never worked in Japan though so can't really comment on the culture.

I would definitely consider all options. Some people find Korea or Japan isn't their cup of tea and prefer the more relaxed southeast asian lifestyle. With Japan though, I think it's pretty necessary to learn the language (most foreigners I met there spoke japanese). People tend to be more transient in Korea, just spending a year or two there, and while it's definitely possible to learn the language to a good conversational level in a few months, for most people it's not worth the investment, as you'll meet enough Koreans with passable english to get by. Almost all my expat friends in Thailand speak thai fwiw, and although the script is much more challenging than korean, I don't think it poses as much of a challenge to an english speaker.

Anyway, as for myself I'm working a corporate job now that'll likely see me back out in asia fairly soon...leaning toward Korea, but considering Japan (though I'd have to learn Japanese) or other countries as well. Good luck.

left us in mid-90s, 6 years in china, now 8 years in france.

i strongly suggest:

1. learn local language / customs (as much as you can before you go, then make it job #1 on site).

2. minimize social contact with other expats for at least a full year (see #1 for why). you can do 0 contact, but don't get stuck in a rut of going to expat bars every time you go out. people may say "you'll get homesick" or "that's hardcore". you are a runner, right? so go hardcore. you will *want* to communicate in your new language if you are lonely.

3. go with a job, any job - teaching is OK (i did that for a bit). Then, once you have #1 under your belt, branch out.

#1 is everything if you intend to stay.

I've never been a teacher in Asia, but I once applied to be a math teacher at a high school in Northern Thailand, and the "interview" was one of the most bizarre experiences that I've ever had. I was offered by the job but it was in my best long term interests to decline. I have 3 years documented experience as a math teacher at the University of Nevada and Iowa State University.

I've tried to do business here in Thailand, but it went disastrously, even for fairly simple, straight-forward contract manufacturing work. I had to get the work done by a company in the USA.

What some of the previous postershave said is very true. If you are just looking to party in Asia, then come over and party. If you are looking to LIVE here, then yes you have to learn at least some of the language of the country, and respect the customs and culture of the place.

Asia is a wonderful part of our world and every country, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Taiwan, China, even Cambodia, is fascinating. Every country in Asia has major "issues" that will drive you nuts, but by-and-large you'll have a great time if you can learn to appreciate the positive attributes about the country and city that you are in.

Jason