If your career playoff record is 9-9, can you be the greatest NFL QB of all time?

little rhody.. wrote:

No, he was out one year, pretty sure he remembered how to play football. He could not match the sub's record from the previous year, less than great in my book.

Without the O line he had a couple of years earlier he was just another guy out there. Keep throwing those 5 yard passes and hope they pick up yardage after the catch, keep it simple for the guy.

He was out one whole year rehabbing a knee, come on. Sure he may not forget football but the physical skills aren't there the way they were before. Talking about an O line, Peyton was sacked how many times this year? Such a low amount, and his QB style does not yield itself to not being sacked without a great O line. So shut the f*** up.

Football fan wrote:

In my own view of who is the greatest QB out there, I like to think of it in terms of "who can do the most with the least"

Along these lines I like to imagine how supporting players would do with other teams. Do you think Garcone(sp?)& Collie would see much playing time on other teams? It is not that they are not quality, but Manning certainly makes them much better than they would be on most other teams. Even a guy like Marvin Harrison might be an undersized third receiver had he not had Manning.

The same can be said for most of the great ones. Other than Moss, has Brady had anyone who would star on another team? Do you think Rice, Harvin, & Shasinco(sp?) appreciate Farve? I am no fan of his need for attention, but he makes those around him better.

When Brady got Moss he wasn't doing much, Brady made him better and in the process had the greatest season of a QB ever.

haha, YO wrote:

When Brady got Moss he wasn't doing much, Brady made him better and in the process had the greatest season of a QB ever.

One way is to look at what QB does the most with the least, or you can look at who makes good players great, and who wins championships. For a QB, that's the standard. For other positions, you could make the former argument and have a good point. Not for a QB though.

Another Opinion wrote:

The Colts defense didn't keep the game close enough for manning to have more time on the field. The Colt's defense lost that game, not manning.

To be fair, I think it's really more accurate to say that New Orleans offense WON that game. When New Orleans was on this year, they picked apart opposing defenses, just as they did against the Colts.

little rhody.. wrote:Keep throwing those 5 yard passes and hope they pick up yardage after the catch, keep it simple for the guy.

Hate to take the punch out of your argument but that's basically what Montana-Rice did for so many years.

The reason I say Montana, Marino, and Brady are the best is because of how intensely mentally they were into the game, and could make the best decisions possible and execute them nearly perfectly every time- no matter what the pressure or situation was. And they executed perfectly because they were such great athletes.

Bradshaw was 14-5 in the postseason

Ooops, I see someone already mentioned this. Serves me right for not reading the whole thread. But one interesting stat I learned about Bradshaw today:

He had only seven 300-yard passing games in his entire career but 3 of them were in the playoffs. How is that for stepping it up under pressure? I am impressed by that stat.

Bradshaw's career numbers were totally pedestrian (and I say that as someone who grew up a big fan of his) but he always seemed to be able to get it done when he needed to.

atownrunnin wrote:

Bradshaw's career numbers were totally pedestrian (and I say that as someone who grew up a big fan of his) but he always seemed to be able to get it done when he needed to.

The Steelers were a defense first team. They drafted and developed run blocking O-linemen and running backs for ball control and clock management. Bradshaw certainly could have thrown the ball around for big numbers with Swann, Stallworth, Lewis, & others, but the risk of interception went against their overall nature as a team.

This is a similar situation with Roethlisberger. It is typically late in the half or game before they let him start throwing downfield. Part of this is due to a very average offensive line and primarily possession receivers. I do like his menatality under pressure.

Weary wrote:

Manning has amazing skills and knowledge of the game, but there are some situations in which he just cannot thrive...certainly not like Joe Montana did, or John Unitas or even Roger Staubach or Steve Young.

Bart Starr had a terrific winning record and there's no doubt he was one of the greats, but - and please correct me if anyone recalls otherwise - he had such an amazing offensive line that I don't even recall him being under pressure all that much.

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Steve Young?

you mention Steve Young and NOT Terry Bradshaw??

Why do people never give the 1970's Steelers and respect?

Noll is never mentioned as one o fht egreatest coaches. Bradshaw is ahrdly ever in the conversation when you talk about great QB's. Yet all they did was win! Bradshaw didn't look to get big stats. He did what he ad to do to win.

Franco blocked as well as run. Mike Webster kept a low profile, and many Steelers of the 70's made less than $100,000 per year. Yet they were 4-0 in their superbowls. 4 wins in 6 years.

And, you mention Steve Young?

Montana, yes. Young? No.

haha, YO wrote:

When Brady got Moss he wasn't doing much, Brady made him better and in the process had the greatest season of a QB ever.

You are a moron, Moss is the most talented receiver in NFL history, just a lazy prick most of the time. He quit on the raiders, don't give him credit for deciding to play hard one year. Where was he this year?

Good ole Terry wrote:

Ooops, I see someone already mentioned this. Serves me right for not reading the whole thread. But one interesting stat I learned about Bradshaw today:

He had only seven 300-yard passing games in his entire career but 3 of them were in the playoffs. How is that for stepping it up under pressure? I am impressed by that stat.

When you have Franco and Rocky, you dont need 300 yard passing games.

Reggie Wayne is not Marvin Harrison.

Addai is not Edgerrin James.

Colts have NEVER had a defense worth talking about. "Bend but don't break" is not a defense...it's an excuse. They have Freeney, that's it. Mathias gets off because teams have to double-team Freeney. We saw what happens when Freeney can't go.

A football team is more than one player. Joe Montana had one of if not the best recieving corps in HISTORY to throw to. Brady had one of if not THE best defensive minds coaching the team. Look at John Elway...he couldn't win until the Broncos got a running game. Marino couldn't win shit in the playoffs but he's still considered one of the best.

Regardless of w-l, you can't argue with stats. Ultimately, w-l is going to be determined by overall team ability.

Alan

Too many take statistics related to the ability of a team as a whole and attempt to relate it directly to the ability or performance of an individual.

It's an oversimplification.

Stats r fir loozers wrote:

Too many take statistics related to the ability of a team as a whole and attempt to relate it directly to the ability or performance of an individual.

It's an oversimplification.

So true. Stating the W-L record of a QB is absurd. Or, at best, it makes as much sense as stating the W-L record for WRs, LTs, CBs, etc.

Teams win and lose, not individuals (at least in football).

Agreed Unanimously wrote:

So true. Stating the W-L record of a QB is absurd. Or, at best, it makes as much sense as stating the W-L record for WRs, LTs, CBs, etc.

Teams win and lose, not individuals (at least in football).

Here is a great example. In the 2002 AFC Championship game, Brady's first, he was totally ineffective. Terrible in fact. Hurt as the 2nd quarter started, he was replaced by Bledsoe, who with the exception of one drive, was also ineffective. However, a punt return for a score, a blocked field goal for a score, 3 Kordell Stewart interceptions, and a lost fumble and NE is on their way to Brady's first Super Bowl with a 7 point win. Brady gets credit for a W as far as his QB won-loss record since he started yet had NOTHING to do with the win.