Oh the tears, the tears.
This is such a terrible thing I can't help but bawl my eyes out along with the rest of you losers.
Oh the tears, the tears.
This is such a terrible thing I can't help but bawl my eyes out along with the rest of you losers.
trollism wrote:
Oh the tears, the tears.
This is such a terrible thing I can't help but bawl my eyes out along with the rest of you losers.
Well done. Great job of contributing to the dialogue. All excellent points.
The big question is what direction does Franklin have the program moving in from this season?
Barnicle, Chris 6-1 SR-Tr Newton, Mass. Arkansas
Bishop, David 6-1 SR-1L Chippenham, England University of Wales Institute, Cardiff
Emanuel, Lee 5-10 SR-2L Hastings, England Sheffield Hallam University
Fraser, Rory 5-11 SR-1L Leicester, England Leeds Metropolitan University
Hagerman, Brock 5-10 SR-2L Markleville, Ind. Norte Dame
Kirwa, Jacob 5-10 SR-1L Eldoret, Kenya Diné College
Willis, Alex 5-11 SR-3L Leadville, Colo. Lake County HS
Losing Barnicle, Bishop, maybe Emanuel finally, Fraser, Kirwa, who is coming in? Any British guys, Canadian guys, Kenyans??
Who will get the magic waiver to stay on?
And most importantly is there conference that has athletes with higher age combination than the Big Sky?
In 1964 Manhattan College had a 39 year old English freshman (Norris or Sando) who was a former Engish international. Think he was 4th in 1964 NCAA X-C.
Any oldtimers remember him?
Did you know that Filbert Bayi, yes...that Filbert Bayi ran for UTEP circa 1984 (would've been 32 or so).
Any oldtimers remember that?
Morten Bostrom (NAU) ran 2 years at U. Helsinki PLUS 4 years at NAU...was still competing at 26. Try figuring that one.
Also, stop only mentioning Rupp & German....what about the New Mexico HS all-state runner who won't get a sniff at ANY scholarship $$$$.
How many Americans are on scholarship at U. of Bristol?
What's the issue? Coaches who realise that the NCAA rules don't take into account the athletics set up this side of the atlantic.
I'm a 30 year old former BUSA champion with undergraduate and postgraduate degree. I've competed in BUSA championships in 6 years, and yet I'm still told I have 2 years div 2 eligibility remaining if I want it (am tempted to walk-on somewhere for six months but that's a different story). How do I know this? Every time I meet a coach from a struggling university they want to know my life story and then quickly work out how much eligibility I've got.
Here in the UK club athletics is much more important than student sport - and so there isn't a big problem if a genuine student (defined by BUCS as someone doing atleast half the credits of the equivalent full time course) of any age wins the title. When Zara Hyde-Peters won the BUSA XC aged 37 or 38 there was little bad feeling towards her. I guess the bigger thing is that there is very little funding at most UK universities for athletes so there isn't the feeling that people are being denied opportunities - 99% of student athletes are "walk-ons".
When will they start age-grading NCAA XC team scores? Then the REAL coaches get a chance to shiiiiiiiiiiiiine
Lobo-tomy wrote:
The big question is what direction does Franklin have the program moving in from this season?
Barnicle, Chris 6-1 SR-Tr Newton, Mass. Arkansas
Bishop, David 6-1 SR-1L Chippenham, England University of Wales Institute, Cardiff
Emanuel, Lee 5-10 SR-2L Hastings, England Sheffield Hallam University
Fraser, Rory 5-11 SR-1L Leicester, England Leeds Metropolitan University
Hagerman, Brock 5-10 SR-2L Markleville, Ind. Norte Dame
Kirwa, Jacob 5-10 SR-1L Eldoret, Kenya Diné College
Willis, Alex 5-11 SR-3L Leadville, Colo. Lake County HS
Losing Barnicle, Bishop, maybe Emanuel finally, Fraser, Kirwa, who is coming in? Any British guys, Canadian guys, Kenyans??
Who will get the magic waiver to stay on?
And most importantly is there conference that has athletes with higher age combination than the Big Sky?
I know for a fact that Rory Fraser is trying to get a 3rd year of eligibility.
I would also assume that David Bishop is also applying for this as they strted a the same time at NMU, and he has had less university appearances than Fraser when they were in England. So would expect if one gets it, the ther will also.
Franklin will definitely have some more brits lined up for when/if they leave and spaces are available on the roster.
Incidentally, heard that Iona are getting 2 amazing u23 brits for the 2010/2011 season, mitch goose and ben lindsay. Goose just got a 5th place finish at the european u23 XC champs in december and has been flying the past year, establishing himself as one of the best young runners in the uk fo a while now. Lindasay came 4th i euro u23 XC in 2008 and i also an outstanding distance runner coming back from a minor injury i think.
Will be major signings if Iona get the.
remember when geoff smith won Boston as a 31-year old senior at PC? he was from England as well.
Up on to VERY, very recently, the Power of Ten site site and in particular the results page could be change by anyone who might want to manipulate results. It was possible to take down results from the page. Investigate that one first.
hey ex lobo - you really believe coach henry did not fill all aid given to the track team? your a d-arse for even saying that.. the UNM athletic director was a hemorriod when coach henry was there. coach franklin thinks he can win there, wrong... that staff doesn't even coach the athletes that are there. nobody works out together - guys just show up at the meet with a UNM jersey on. trust me - i know more...
Ex Lobo wrote:
Why doesn't anyone cry about the legalized cheating that BYU gets too utilize???
Really?? Did you miss the 10 page thread of whining about BYU back in October.
amazing story wrote:
after high school, Lee was stricken with alcoholism. His running went to crap, and his lifestyle was on a quick downward spiral. This explains the 04-05 seasons, as he was in rehab... rather than competing.
Truly a remarkable story, giving alcoholics worldwide hope for recovery.
**it should be noted that Lee tends to have relapses, mainly occurring every fall during XC season. He quickly rebounds to win an NCAA indoor title and run 3:3x outdoors.
Motivational story right thurrr.
That is freakin' hilarious. Especially the part about why he sucks at XC every year. (unless it is actually true in which case it really is sad/ remarkable) lol
i don't care if old guys compete..... its not age that gives anyone an advantage.... its number of seasons after HS. thats what i think teh determining factor should be.
Btw, I'm not Matt Gonzales. And to "i know more", why don't you go ask some of the UNM assistant AD's how many scholarships Henry was using like I did. I think they know more. And the coaches at UNM (yes Joe himself) do coach all the athletes. I saw Lee and Rory before a workout and asked them what they were doing. They didn't know until Joe got there to tell them. How do you think Lee went from 3:45 to 3:37?? The UNM coaches and Lee's hard work and determination that's how.
And if you're a good athlete in NM and have the grades to get into UNM, Joe is going to recruit you hard. It is happening all the time as we speak. But that is something that will take some time, but soon enough you will see. Again, GO LOBOS!!
poiuy wrote:
Using your own argument, why doesn't Emmanuel just go pro? Should the NCAA allow Kobe and LeBron the opportunity to go back and play college basketball? As you said, why limit eligibility at all? I don't think Geb or Bekele ever used any eligibility either.
Those good enough to go pro and be supported will do so. LeBron and Kobe obviously had the opportunity to play college and passed on it. Why would a professional who can make millions (or a decent wage for the runners) compete in college against inferior competition? Emmanuel will probably get a pro contract this year but he's certainly not been vastly superior to college comp on the national level so far. Older athletes, in their mid 20s, would win NCAA's most years under a system with no limits, but then they do that already now and the system limits freedom and makes this country less competitive in distance running because of the lack of post graduate support for our 22/23 year olds.
Age Breakdown of the NCAA XC Championships '09:
Sam Chalenga - 25 (in 2 weeks, 24 @ time of win)
David McNeill - 24
Chris Derrick - 19
Barnabas Kirui - 24
Jordan Chipagama - 21
Dorian Ulrey - 22
Brandon Bethke - 22
Andrew Bumbalough - 22
Ryan Vail - 23
Colby Lowe - 19
I'd like to have the NCAA simply say that on the day you turn 24 you can no longer compete in Division I athletics.
As far as Mormon missions go, the same rule should apply. Their student athletes can either do their missions when they turn 24 or give up some athletic eligibility as part of their religious convictions/sacrifice. Their choice.
You will find that the coaches will start whining about "the kids" and their lost opportunities. It should not come as a surprise, however, that the kids just happen to be exceptionally good athletes. How a 24 or 25 year old adult still poses as "a kid" though is part funny, part sad.
Do u really think New Mexico would have the same pot of scholarship cash available next year if it wasn't for athletes like Lee puttin them up there in the rankings?..... Answer: definately not!
Tracks budget come from the athletics department, if track sucks that given year the chances are the scholarships will be cut and put into another sport. If the older guys are more likely to keep your funding, why take a chance on a team full of freshman???
Of course. It's far more reliable to import 22+ year olds with essentially a full college career's experience to now compete for the school for 2 or 3 years. That explains the coach's motivation for doing so.
Nevertheless, it short changes the 18 year old freshmen who come out of the US high schools. That's not good for US athletes. The feeling is that if a university has one such athlete it's ok, but when it builds its core around such athletes - older athletes from other countries - people begin to resent it and question why it should be permitted.
UNM is a public institution, a state school that acts more like a post-collegiate group than a group of student athletes. Shameful.
The Emanuels, Frasers, et al are on FULL SCHOLARSHIPS for performances of 23-25 year olds. Their US counterparts in the NCAA are coming in now as 18-19 year old KIDS and getting scholarships based on those performances,... NOT FULL RIDES. How many kids come over from Europe and PAY ANYTHING for school? Is it because they're all vastly superior in talent and ability? NO. Is it because they've had 3 years more time to improve their PRs and thus earn scholarship that is impossible for any 18-19 year old US kid to get? YES. Shameful.
Syracuse in the NE is an example of what patience yields for a COACH. Look at the recruits UNC brought in this past year...they'll fit the same mold soon enough. Instant gratification yields weak results and little to NO RESPECT.
Anyone have information on Franklin's freshman classes these past few years at UNM?