911 was an inside job. Zionists did it. Nuff said.
The best way of arguing with a conspiracy theorist is to come up with wilder and more insane conspiracy theories on (1) The JFK assasination (2) Sept. 11 and (3) The real reason for the war in Iraq.
For example, just say that George W Bush was actually the offspring of a genetic experiment carried out in a gas station in Peoria Illinois, using mutant alien sperm and a Russian prostitute.
john joe wrote:
Interesting to note that Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth now has over 1000 professional signatories.
Very interesting.
There are moron and idiots that permeate every walk of life. This surprises you?
Wake up.
"In the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying."
-Adolph Hitler
in a bind wrote:
Sorry for the caps. Anyway, I consider myself a smart person. I have a masters degree in a respectable profession, I vote responsibly and I like to keep myself informed. That said...
I know people who are what you might call conspiracy theorists. They would say they are not but they have a view of the world entirely derived from hand-picked sources that support their own opinion and have a HUGE knowledge base when it comes to that particular subject. They sound right when they argue it.
I have strong opinions, but theoretically and politically I'd be considered middle-of-the-road, maybe a little liberal. Most of these conspiracy theorists are on the left, to be honest, with globalization and government takeover and 9/11, but some are on the right, with government takeover (same shit, I know...) and personal freedoms and homosexuality,
My question is, how do you argue with someone who has an arsenal of information about a single subject when you have a more theoretical grounding? When I try and argue with my friend about 9/11, for instance, he throws out some historical fact or quote that makes it seem as if it was an inside job. I argue that, but feebly because I don't know the context, and then he just throws out another fact or quote. I don't have the answers to "whodunnit" so he seems right. Then most of his other conspiracy theories MUST be right because he's "proven" the first one
I could go on for a while here, but I'll only do so if there's some interest. Anyone else see this kind of thing? It's so hard to argue with someone like this. My biggest problem is when they ask you a question: "Have you heard...?" I say, "Uh, no." Then, "You're a slave of the media, la la la."
Man, I've gone on for a while. Who else deals with conspiracy theorists on a daily basis?
Moderates are by far the most irresponsible voters in America - people with no philosophic consistency can be guided only by arbitrary, pragmatic whim.
Most people on letsrun just treat conspiracies as axiomatic fallacies, as if the falsehood of any conspiracy thoery is self-evident and irreducible. Here's an example:
Persion 1: "The US Federal Reserve and other central banks of the world are all owned by the same group of international bankers. Doesn't that seem like a huge conflict of interest?"
Person 2: "Cuckoo! Cuckoo! Cuckoo! Do you want a tinfoil hat?"
and remember guys
Christians burned Rome
Poland invaded Germany
The communists burned the German Reichstag
Saddam got TONS of weapons of mass destruction, all were found by USA forces
Afghanistan is full of terrorists, we kill them or they kill us
Last but not least, vaccine is only hope against deadly Swine Flu virus, look at Poland - they didn't used even single vaccine and now all poles are dead!
The key to it is the huge difficulty in keeping secrets. In your own family do you keep secrets? Do you personally keep secrets? Do you trust other people to keep secrets. All these alleged conspiracies depend on scores of people keeping sensational secrets that over long periods of time despite a huge and global and even lucrative interest in them. It simply doesn't happen in real life. Ask Tiger. Ask anyone.
nuts wrote:
Conspiracy theorists are just like creationists.
Just because science cannot describe in exact detail how a biochemical pathway evolved, it does not mean that evolution is false.
And just like how we're not able to describe how a fire..., it does not mean that the original story is false.
Same logical fallacy.
Ask for some evidence.
It doesn't mean evolution is true either. Everything in evolution assumes evolution is true and builds off of that assumption because 'there is no possible alternative.' I don't believe in any conspiracy theories, but let's not bring up evolution. It's one of the dumbest theories known to mankind. How someone can so thoroughly delude themselves to think that was actually what happened is beyond me. I am currently learning a lot about DNA and RNA transcription, and all the textbooks say is "this is what could have happened," but it never shows evidence that that was the way it happened because it already assumes evolution and then asks "how did evolution happen?" instead of "Did evolution happen?" That is why science revolves so much around evolution... because that's the way it's taught and that's the way it's looked at, but it's never questioned as a viable means for bringing about what we see today.
Did you hear that conspiracy theorists are just CIA agents whose job is to make us normal people think that conspiracy theorists are just nutjobs so that the govt can continue doing whatever it does?
I haven't read the whole thread yet, but I am not a believer in conspiracy theorists. They require cooperation and secrecy, something that overzealous types are not capable of. Not in any "conspiracy" of three or more people, ever.
Just to use one example...this "9/11 was an inside job" thing. If that were true, does anyone REALLY think that no one involved would have tipped his hand yet?
nsmb, surrounded by them wrote:
It doesn't take Freud to understand that this conspiracy mindset comes from a stance of victimhood. "Woe is us, we're so oppressed by the (government, international billionaires, Jews, freemasons, ...) who have so much power while we have none."
You're the victim of your own stupidity.
the mentality that all conspiracy theories are crazy arises from the mentality of not thinking at all; when one of these people hears of a conspiracy theory, all that registers in his head is the fact that most other people dont agree with it, and since he refused to consider anything that goes against the beliefs of others, his knee jerk reaction is to ridicule. There is nothing inherent in a conspiracy theory as such that automatically renders all conspiracy theories ridiculuous. Conspiracies happen all the time. Those who participate in conspiracies enjoy the protection of the word "conspiracy" which automatically draws ridicule to anyone who points one out. The question is whether there is valid evidence to support a given conspiracy theory.
the mentality that all conspiracy theories are crazy arises from the mentality of not thinking at all; when one of these people hears of a conspiracy theory, all that registers in his head is the fact that most other people dont agree with it, and since he refused to consider anything that goes against the beliefs of others, his knee jerk reaction is to ridicule. There is nothing inherent in a conspiracy theory as such that automatically renders all conspiracy theories ridiculuous. Conspiracies happen all the time. Those who participate in conspiracies enjoy the protection of the word "conspiracy" which automatically draws ridicule to anyone who points one out. The question is whether there is valid evidence to support a given conspiracy theory.
Author: Picayune
Subject: RE: HOW TO ARGUE WITH A CONSPIRACY THEORIST
Message:
I haven't read the whole thread yet, but I am not a believer in conspiracy theorists. They require cooperation and secrecy, something that overzealous types are not capable of. Not in any "conspiracy" of three or more people, ever.
Just to use one example...this "9/11 was an inside job" thing. If that were true, does anyone REALLY think that no one involved would have tipped his hand yet?
-
1) Anyone who has a belief about what happened on 9/11 is a believer in "conspiracy theorists" (I'm assuming you meant to say conspiracy THEORIES). That is because the official/mainstream version of events is itself a conspiracy theory. It is one that involves 19 arabs who conspire to hijack planes and fly them into buildings, under the guidance of Osama, KSM, or whoever. That is a theory of a conspiracy taking place. Once again, the official version of events is a conspiracy theory.
2) So you are saying that the OFFICIAL theory about what happened that day is impossible because it involved "three or more people"? You realize you are now discounting essentially any theory about what happened on that day, no matter what you believe. By that line of reasoning, one or more of the would be hijackers would have ratted out the entire thing before hand and it never would have happened.
3) It doesn't surprise me at all that no one directly involved has "tipped his hand yet". Since when do criminals just come out and say "Yeah, I did it"? Why would they? Tipping one's hand in this case would mean admitting to being accomplice to murder of ~3,000 US citizens in one day, along with thousands of US soldiers and millions of foreign citizens in the ensuing years. You think anyone would actually admit to that??? REALLY???
4) There has already been plenty of indirect tipping of the hands by people of importance. Here is a site that lists over 1,900 professionals (including military and intelligence) who question the official version of events:
http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/
5) All this speculation and/or belief from either side doesn't matter anyway, because the evidence contrary to the official story is overwhelming. The facts speak for themselves. See this presentation for why over 1000 architects and engineers now demand a new investigation: 9/11 Blueprint for Truth (2008 Edition)
Sorry, couldn't get the link. Google video: 9/11 Blueprint for Truth (2008 Edition)
As an aside, if I was to make a determination about whether I should question the events of 9/11, I would rather side with 1,000+ architects and engineers, as opposed to some Letsrun.com message board posters. Should I believe whole bunch of professionals who would be far more knowledgeable about building design and construction, or anonymous posters on a running website? Food for thought. Moral of this story: do your own research.
Peace
ggilder wrote:
The key to it is the huge difficulty in keeping secrets. In your own family do you keep secrets? Do you personally keep secrets? Do you trust other people to keep secrets. All these alleged conspiracies depend on scores of people keeping sensational secrets that over long periods of time despite a huge and global and even lucrative interest in them. It simply doesn't happen in real life. Ask Tiger. Ask anyone.
We keep a few secrets in our Family, actually.
ggilder wrote:
The key to it is the huge difficulty in keeping secrets. In your own family do you keep secrets? Do you personally keep secrets? Do you trust other people to keep secrets. All these alleged conspiracies depend on scores of people keeping sensational secrets that over long periods of time despite a huge and global and even lucrative interest in them. It simply doesn't happen in real life. Ask Tiger. Ask anyone.
You only know about the secrets people don't keep. That's why you know about them. How many secrets are there you don't know about? More than the ones you do? It's a logical fallacy to say "Some people don't keep some secrets therefore nobody keeps any secrets."
xsrv wrote:
How to argue with a conspiracy theorist.
[CT]: building 7 collapsed symmetrically, i think it was deliberate, there must be a conspiracy
(crude I know, but words to that effect ^^ )
[you]: Are you convinced of this?
[CT]: Well just look at the "facts", courtesy of my source
[you]: So the official story doesn't answer your questions satisfactorily?
[CT]: its all lies, a building on fire doesn't collapse symmetrically according to this source that I trust more than the media
[you]: I don't think that is the case. Just because you have a question that isn't answered by the information provided to you via media agents who are not experts in the field does not indicate that it was all made up to make you believe something.
You can believe what you will, but I choose not to.
In order to stay on the high ground you just won, don't get drawn back into the argument.
I don't think you've really won any high ground with this line of argument.