My coach is going to cut my scholarship

I am a former (30 years ago) Division 1 runner who was on a very substantial scholarship at one of the nation's better schools.

This exemplifies why it is so important to go to a school for the right reasons - the school itself.

I doubt this will work out for the original poster. Coming to practice every day is not something either party - coach or athlete - is going to enjoy. I am not being negative, but is difficult in this kind of environment to achieve success.

And let's get real. There is very little money or opportunity with running, so it is not like passing it up or moving to a low key environment is akin to giving up an NBA career.

I was a good student, and regret not going to a Division III school (one of the better ones) where I could have had personal attention at the school in both academics and in a social life (I was without a father), and where with minimal training could run a 3:50ish 1500, a fine performance for Div. III. I had no one around to guide me.

Rather than obsess about your running, ask yourself what you want to do in 5 years. It likely does not involve running. Make positive plans to get there - hopefully staying at your excellent public school, but if not, then work with your parents (if they are supportive) to help you get there through the means of another school.

This is not a knock on D1 scholarships. I thankfully went to school on one. But they aren't a good fit for all. I went on to excellent professional schools and reached levels of achievement at those schools. But that was a difficult transition. I would have been happier and less insecure if I took another route than the Div. 1 scholarship drill, and would have enjoyed running for running's sake.

Again, no sour grapes. I intuited how the guys at Villanova and Oregon were training, and they weren't getting their results by magic. I admired them. But being an elite Div. 1 athlete is not a balanced lifestyle deal, and again, wish I had more insight into the process than I did.

I was in a similar situation. Came into college a stud out of high school and got a full ride to a major confrence school. The first year went horribly for me both running wise and academically, my coach cut my scholarship. Luckily my parents had enough money to pay for my college without the scholarship and it turned out for the best I didn't run with the team.

I returned to my highschool coach who trained who trained me over the phone and I ended up beating all my ex-college team mates by the end of my college days and I didn't need to make myself totally miserable to do it, I was able to do other things. I joined a frat, studied abroad for a semester, joined many clubs, and finished with a pretty high GPA. I believe I ran faster then I ever could have with my college team, had more fun then I would have with my ex-college team, I didn't have to live my life workout to workout like my ex-teammates, and now 10 years after graduting college I still love to run unlike my college teamates who are mostly burnt out.

despite hiding behind my rediculous name, i have to post a serious comment and agree this this post. I recently hired and laid off 3 new undergrads and they have a certain attitude where they feel they should get paid for comming to work and surfing the web for 8 hours (I\\\\\\\'m paying them for data analysis). If you don\\\\\\\'t do produce the work that\\\\\\\'s expected you\\\\\\\'re going to get laid off...easy as that. If you don\\\\\\\'t run fast the money to keep to running isn\\\\\\\'t going to be there. Study a real major and get some academic scholarships, running isn\\\\\\\'t going to take you anywhere you want b/c turning pro isn\\\\\\\'t a feasible dream.

Hank Stamper wrote:

Just relax and run well this spring. You kids whine and bitch about needing $, but when you underperform- you get very upset when the coach wants it back. The same would happen in the real world- and while a coach cannot take your $ away for peformance reasons- believe me- he can take it away if he wants to.

Hang in there and live up to your scholarship. In five years Ill see you on letswork.com complaining about your boss cutting your paycheck because you\\\\\\\'re a pooosy.

Unbiased - my only regret now was not doing as you did.

Unfortunately, I had a single unemployed mother and no father around, so I stubbornly stuck it out (the school has an excellent reputation and the academics were fantastic, if only I could have given a more complete effort to them).

The coach wasn't a bad guy - he couldn't relate to someone with my academic goals and he likely should have recruited me with an eye towards obtaining one of the school's academic scholarships or some other form of aid (I was a 4:07 and change high school miler). I would have been a helpful walk-on, and may in fact have more effectively resisted the boom and bust overtraining cycle to which I engaged.

Hardest four years of my life - and was burned out on running at the end of the experience.

I went to a top 10 grad school, but frankly was a better student than most of my peers in that school. Running in Div. 1 was a burden and while it didn't hurt my grades, it did dilute my undergrad curriculum - I needed and should have taken more rigorous courses than I did take. I did really well in grad school (better than anything I accomplished in running) once freed from being a scholarship athlete, but the adjustment was challenging.

I was so time constrained and stressed in undergrad that I used to toss and turn in grad school dreaming I was hopelessly behind and had missed an assignment, only to wake up and find that it was already done! I am not describing anything different than what hundreds of scholarship guys on this board have done, but heck, I sure didn't have a good idea of what I had gotten myself into.

Let me state again that I respect those that make the Division 1 scholarship commitment. And some of the comments here are superb. It isn't the coach's fault if too much drinking is going on, or if the athlete is not communicating as to what the typical jump in mileage and intensity is doing to their energy level and their body, or if, and this is a common element, the athlete doesn't realize the need to take an adult approach towards diet and sleep and watch both carefully. But at the end of the day I am not certain enough young people ask the tough questions of themselves as to what it takes to be an elite Div. 1 runner, or if their other goals coincide with that objective.

Thank you for your post, "another view". I, too, was a division 1 scholarship athlete. It was a time in my life I regret. I hated the pressure of being on full scholarship and developed a sleep disorder due to anxiety. All of a sudden I was running because I had to instead of because I wanted to.

I maintained a high GPA and wish that I thought to look into switching to an academic scholarship. My parents could not afford college tuition so I needed scholarship money.

jjjjjjjjjj wrote:

nobody cares?? ah ... you're hurting my wittle feelings.

Now who's the troll?

Another view,

I could just copy and paste your post because it describes my own experience perfectly. To say I can relate to everything you wrote is an understatement.

Just for clarification is he reducing your scholarship or not covering the tuition increase that comes every year? The rules are different for each situation. My college roommate was recruited, the whole full ride, etc. A new coach took over at the beginning of our freshman year. He performed okay, and the coach decided not to cover the increased tuition cost the next year (or the two other years as well). He did that to a few XC and track guys, took the money and offered partial scholarships to other runners. So my roommate went from his first year being fully paid for to paying approximately $1000 for his soph year, $2000 for junior year, and $3,000 for senior year. He consulted an attorney and coaches can do that. So even with his "full ride" it cost him $6000. He luckily was in a position to be able to afford it. As far as reducing it for poor performance, the other posters are correct. If you are doing everything your coach tells you to do and he tries to reduce it, you can appeal. He is not supposed to be able to do that.

I never understood why you would leave your high school coach if you are doing well under him. If running really is your first priorty you should stay with what has been working for you for all those years. So often I see these elites having nice improvment year and year then decide to leave there high school coach for a college one and they start sucking.

Now if its a money issue it changes everything.

Running is purely a performance-based sport. If a footballer strains his hamstring, the trainers wrap it up and send him out. The coaches say "oh, he's about 85% right now but he's going to go". Have you ever been 85% as a runner and been able to go? It doesn't work. If you're a 4 min. miler, 85% of a 4 minute mile isn't going to cut it.It's apples and oranges.

mtk013 wrote:

Why does this happen in running anyways? You NEVER see anyone lose a scholarship in revenue sports like basketball or football for not performing to expectations

I've seen full ride athletes come in basically coast for 4 years. At some point they lost the spark or it just wasn't working. But they kept their full ride and got their degree.

At the time I was a bit frustrated as I was a walk on that kept improving and eventually started getting scholarship money. I out performed some of these guys but didn't get the full scholarship until the very last semester (one class to graduate).

I know these kids couldn't stay in school without the full ride. I have no problem with them taking the money.

Life just doesn't work out where everything is distributed fairly.

So take what you can get. If it's more than you deserve then don't worry, some day you'll get the short end.

yes, but I don't want to just "coast" or "get by" these 4 years, I wan't to run well and maximize my talent, I wouldn't have put all those 100 + mile weeks in during the summer and be living like some kind of monk this school year if that wasn't the case.

sad, depressed, frustrated wrote:

yes, but I don't want to just "coast" or "get by" these 4 years, I wan't to run well and maximize my talent, I wouldn't have put all those 100 + mile weeks in during the summer and be living like some kind of monk this school year if that wasn't the case.

My first impression is that this must be Dave Smith, but there are probably a lot of control freak coaches at universities.

I agree with most of the responses here. The coach is a dud, whose bad attitude causes good athletes to run poorly.

I would get out of there as soon as possible, go where you are treated well and appreciated for being there. Also stop thinking of "top schools" etc, as the school where the coach is treating you badly is not a top school. Check D3 schools, as some others have suggested. School is expensive.

Even with a scholarship you are losing money compared to if you worked for that some time on the outside and didn't even go to school. It has been a few decades but I still cringe at the money that I lost by the time at a university, but gained the valuable lesson that everything worth learning comes from life, not from school. Often school dumbs people down, your coach is a good example of this, as you were running better before you got there. Many seem to have missed that the current program has you running slow all the time, probably the reason your running has gone backwards.

I think if you stay with the program that it will turn into a lifetime 4 year regret. Best regards

sad, depressed and frustrated - I don't know you or your training, but if I had run 100 mile weeks the summer before my freshman year, I would have been totally fried. Throw in the intensity you are now experiencing with division 1 runners who race each other all too often in practice and it appears you are letting running and fatigue entirely control you rather than you controlling the running. And while your discipline appears admirable, squeezing in a movie now and then is not cheering your outlook. And you are not having fun during what should be the best time of your life. If you have supportive parents (I wish I did), engage them - not as you would have in high school, but as an adult seeking a sounding board for your life goals. You really must ask yourself what you would like to do in five years. You are likely talent enough that running will play a part but set a goal you can control and progress against.

I ran 60 a week my 12th grade summer and should have been less focused on mileage and more focused on taking easy days and at the same running a 15-18 mile run every 6-10 days - those runs, in contrast to high school X-C, are necessary to slog a 10k over hill and dale. But most high school guys can't do them more often than at a 6-10 day interval. (Most of us do not have Dathan Ritzenhein talent). I don't know if this helps - I needed long runs to get me in basic aerobic shape but high intensity intervals (not in volume, though) without rest to get ready to race. I never had the maturity to approach my coach properly to explain what kept me in shape. This is why I was disappointed to hear what your coach has done - it will frustrate communication.

A young man in the neighborhood was our state champ.

I read a post a few years ago on this board where a poster stated he was quitting Div. 1 college running. I knew exactly who he was by his descriptions, and talked to his father, a great guy who I knew would be disappointed. But when his father talked to his son about his goals, it made sense. The son is now in a prestigious Phd program in a field where stipends are hard to come by. It is a good thing to have a supportive father, something I wish for every day of my life. But the son did the right thing for him, and my guess is that even in grad school he can run a 25 min 8k on the roads, enough to remind himself that he is indeed a talented athlete.

By the way, I am a parent - with two daughter who do not play sports but who are marvelous students at Ivy League schools. More important, they are so nice to be around that I just wonder how a poor bum from a single mother home could be so lucky. I am not an expert by any means in advising young people - most of us with great kids will in all honesty concede we are simply lucky - but your post has hit home and I wish you well. And I am impressed but not surprised at the honesty and frankly great advice from other former scholarship guys here.

someone having to pay 6000 for college is a travesty. how can that happen. it is sickening to me.....oh wait, i think i meant quit whining.

Your lucky to be in a sport that to reach the highest levels you don't need to be on an actual team. If your truly dedicated and truly running because you want to be succesful and not for social reasons then I don't see any reason why you wouldn't be able to return to your high school coach (who was obviously doing something right to get you a major d-1 scholarship in the first place) and get back to being succesful.

reading through this I want to correct some people, even those who claim to be coaches.

Your scholarship is a 1 year contract. It can be reduced FOR ANY REASON after the academic year. Of course you must be notified in writing and there is an appeals process that should be independent of athletic department members.

So while you can't be reduced DURING THE YEAR for performance, you can after the season is over. In fact, in theory, you could set a WORLD RECORD and the coach could still reduce you. There are NO GUIDELINES for reduction once the academic year is over.

That said, coaches make choices and those choices have consequences. If I am recruiting against your coach, I will tell the kid I am recruiting to talk DIRECTLY to you. Ask how good you were, if you did what the coach said, how it worked out for you. Once that kid knows you were good, did what the coach asked, and now you are bad and losing your scholarship, I'm sure I'd win that recruiting battle.

So again, every choice has its consequence. By making a choice, you are also chosing the conseqence. Like it or not.

Here are the Top 10 public academic insitutions according to US News and World Report

1.CAL

2.UCLA

3.Virginia

4.Michigan

5.UNC

6.William and Mary

7.Georgia Insitute for Tech

8.Cal-San Diego

9.Illinois

10.Wisconsin

So it is not Dave Smith.

sad, depressed, frustrated....go to

http://www.ncaapublications.com/Uploads/PDF/D1_Manual9d74a0b2-d10d-4587-8902-b0c781e128ae.pdf

.

It is a copy of the 09-10 NCAA Rule Book. Look at pages 180-185 to see what the exact rules are for your situation. Don't use the posters on this site to tell you the rules. Know them for yourself. Look at 15.3.4.3 - on page 182.

Educate yourself!