MD XC kid dq'd for shorts - RAMPAGE!!!

llort_vbo wrote:

...if everyone gets to pick and choose what rules to follow then why not just let everyone just pick the distance they want to run? Whoever finishes first will be the runner?

How about, "I didn't feel like running all the way around the flag?"

If you can't discern a different level of violation between a runner whose undershorts had contrasting threads and a runner who cut a course during a race I'm not sure anyone on this board can help you. If the DQ in this case had been because the kid had cut the course we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I don't think anyone debates that a rule wasn't broken. Hopefully due to this outrageous application of the rulebook the Maryland coaches or whoever makes the rules for that state will take a look at the book and make some decisions about rules that actually need to be on the books. XC should be a simple sport, stuff like this adds unnecessary complications.

madarin wrote:

I hope the posters who are saying the rule should have been overlooked at just high school kids home from school today. Yes, high school uniform rules may be ridiculous, but they are the rules, and officials are expected to enforce these rules no matter how insignificant they may seem to us. You don't like the rules? Well then take the advice of an earlier poster and start writing letters. Otherwise, shut up.

you are incredibly gay

Redbone wrote:

There is ABSOLUTELY a villain in this situation. Either a slimeball coach (or parent, I suppose) noticed the stitching and forced the hand of an official.

I would bet 10:1 that this is the case. The rules are clear, no matter how stupid, and the official does not choose which rules to enforce and which to not. He can turn his head, but when it is called to his attention, he has no choice.

There is no reason to blaim the offical, the county or the state, the rules come from National Federation of High Schools.

d2xccoach wrote:

I don't think anyone debates that a rule wasn't broken. Hopefully due to this outrageous application of the rulebook the Maryland coaches or whoever makes the rules for that state will take a look at the book and make some decisions about rules that actually need to be on the books. XC should be a simple sport, stuff like this adds unnecessary complications.

This was not an outrageous application of the rulebook. This was the correct application of an outrageous rule. But, the bottom line is that it is a rule. The kid technically should have been disqualified. There is no logical argument against this. The kid broke the rule. The punishment for breaking the rule is disqualification. Therefore, he should be disqualified. This does not mean that it is a good rule. But by rule, he must be disqualified.

If a coach pointed it out after the race, that coach should be ashamed of himself for taking something away from that kid. But the coach of that kid should also be ashamed of himself for not teaching the kids the rules and not checking to make sure the kid was following the rules.

If XC is meant to be a simple sport, then why wear spandex underneath? Isn't that making it more complex. The spirit of the rule is that the teams are matching. The rulebooks may have taken the rule a bit too far, but keep in mind that no one used to wear stuff underneath their uniforms. Now that we have all this stuff, the rules get confusing. So the rules have to be made very clear in order to eliminate subjectivity. That's why the rule states that undergarments may only be one solid color. There is nothing subjective about it now. If it isn't one color, it's illegal. There, we have our rule. Now let's move on.

Rules are rules. If the official was simply following the rules, he has nothing to apologize for.

Now remember, all jews must wear gold stars at all times. Any books in your possession must be turned in and burned. No blacks or women will be allowed to vote. Just a kind reminder of the rules.

To piggyback on the last poster, I agree that the spirit of the rule is good (team in matching uniforms), but the application of the rule (DQ for a small swoosh or UA logo) is bad.

A line also has to be drawn in school-provided vs. family-provided uniforms. Especially when the family-provided uniform is something visible like compression shorts.

Again, I'll echo other posters in saying that the coach should've noticed before the race. When I ran in HS, our coach gave us a packet on the first day of practice that included a section on "approved" compression shorts, sports bras, hats, gloves, etc. He had had a runner DQed from a meet a few years back because of boxer shorts, and although he was actively trying to change the rule at the national level, he decided that he wouldn't have that happen again.

46 posts and we're already comparing a uniform rule to the Nazis. Goodwin's law strikes once again!

d2xccoach wrote:

I understand the intention behind the rule that members of a team must wear the same "uniform", in order to give officials the best chance to score the meet correctly.

Even this is no longer much of an issue now that pretty much every meet uses electronic timing and scoring.

Jeez, I can't believe you've all overlooked the main issue:

Why was the kid wearing compression shorts in the first place???

You can say rules are rules until you are blue in the face, it still does not answer the question, why these rules exists. I understand teams have uniforms, but what is the point of making rules about the uniforms being the same. There is not going to be any "running" advantage to different colors on your spandex. There are numbers that each runner has to keep track of who is running, so there would be no cheating in that respect. It is not like a high school team is going to show up naked or anything. I just don't understand why there is regulations about the uniforms, it doesn't seem relevant to keeping the competition fair. And keeping it fair and safe for everyone should be the only reason they make rules, otherwise they are on a power-trip.

llort_vbo wrote:

if you can't follow simple rules, then you don't deserve to win

_____________________

Yes. But, there are extremes. I can see if someone has a pair of tights on underneath, and the rest of the team does not.

The problem is not the officials. The problem is the petty high school coaches who actually persue the disqualification.

Would you really want to display a trophy that you received for that situation? Would'nt you rather earn it?

I have run against several people I could have cried to be dq'd. They didn't have any advantage with their attire.

This is getting out of hand.

The coaches are setting a poor example.

I haven't read the whole thread, just a few on the first page, but a few thoughts.

1) Any official who DQs a girl because a pink bra strap is sticking out of her uniform should be banned from every officiating again, or even from being around children. He possibly should be put in preventive detention.

2) All these "a rule's a rule" people need to be put in re-education camps.

3) About half the rules should not be rules.

4) High school kids are supposed to be taught about fair play, about honest rewards for effort and achievement. Does anybody think this Maryland decision sends any of those messages? Again, no one who DOESN'T get that should be officiating anything involving kids.

llort_vbo wrote:

It takes more courage to follow rules when they don't make sense.

Would you have followed the rules that Hitler set out?

Would it be courageous to follow those?

You are intellectually underdeveloped.

you sir have been godwinned

According to the number one rule of the internet, you lose

I'm having difficulty posting my comment on the Sun's website, so here it is. I encourage everyone who feels strongly about this to contact the officials in Maryland:

Steve Smith, MPSSAA Rules Interpreter for Track and Field

410.887.4266 x478

Edward F. Sparks, MPSSAA Executive Director

nsparks@mpssaa.org

Becky Oakes, Assistant Director, NHFS (the body who issues Maryland's HSL rules)

boakes@nhfs.com

317-972-6900

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This disqualification is outrageous. Officials and coaches, have some courage. This issue runs deeper than the philosophy of whether or not officals should enforce every rule to the letter or use judgment. The existence of these rules is ludicrous and against the spirt of sportsmanship.

In the Sun's linked article above these comments, Becky Oakes, assistant director of the rule creating body, defended this rule:

"Your cross country uniform is supposed to say that 'I'm from high school XYZ.' Philosophically, that's what 'team' is all about. The [multicolored] Spandex undergarment began to get away from that."

A line of white stitching on a young man's underwear began to detract from the "philosophical" essence of "team"? Uniforms are a necessary trapping of "team," so that competitors can identify each other. Strangers putting on the same uniform doesn't make a team.

High school sports are about teaching the essence of competition. Fairness, integrity, determination, and respect for your competitors -- these principles teach us humanity. The nuances of your undergarments has nothing to do with these principles. This disqualification truly is a gutless performance on the part of the official, the accepting coach, and the bureaucrats willing to defend the ruling. Anyone who stands by this ironclad "rules are rules" mentality should reconsider their place in high school sports.

On the other thread someone wrote,"the rule should be that uniform violations can only be addressed before the gun goes off. make the list of uniform violations as ridiculous as you want, but don't allow enforcement once the race starts." Please add this to your comments. We have to do more than tell them it is wrong and why but how to fix it.

ptboss wrote:

....The rules are clear, no matter how stupid, and the official does not choose which rules to enforce and which to not. He can turn his head, but when it is called to his attention, he has no choice.

This is utter cowardice and bu11sh1t.

The official chooses which rules to enforce, and can tell the coach/parent to go get bent, and should have. Again, another apparatchik preserving a sinecure.

"We are gonna have a hearing on the stitching of this kids spandex" - do you think somebody would have been fired for this? Are you serious?

Yep. Don't like the rule? Then get it changed or removed. Until then, everyone has to adhere to it or risk punishment. Only in pluralistic, pussified America is this concept so hard to comprehend. Maybe this is why MD xc sucks?

What can I run wrote:

To all the people who are agreeing with the DQ, what the hell. Oh hey its a rule so we should all follow the rule?! Dude, its a messed up rule that ruined this kids season. And it should be thrown out. It obviously does not make the kid run faster. This is stupidity to a new degree.

Seneca street and Bisp

Yes, you are pithy little sophists who believe citing Godwins law settles the debate. But if you seriously think a team deserves to lose a conference title because of stitching on his shorts then you, like the official hiding behind his rulebook, are the real pussies. And you have probably never ran competitively either.