Anyone ever try training like Frank Shorter?

Frank didn't train much at 'high' altitude. Boulder or even Flagstaff isn't 'high'. It's moderate to low altitude, big difference when you're throwing times out there.

Didn't Frank Shorter kill Me?

I wouldn't call Shorter's training "highly structured."

The example week posted earlier in the thread is just than- an example. I think too often we look at a week and someone goes "oh, this is what so-and-so did EVERY week."

That training example seems to have come (originally) from Shorter's autobiography with Marc Bloom, where Shorter states several times that while his weeks do typically follow that pattern, it was by no means a rigid, set thing.

Later in the book, he gives advice to runners at different levels- beginners (the standard stuff about enjoying it, not trying to do too much too soon, etc) first time marathoners, people who care about racing, and then aspiring national/world class runners. He writes a pretty nice paragraph for each one, except, of course, the "aspiring elites." The advice he gives to aspiring elite runners?

"Do my workouts, or a reasonable facsimile thereof."

From Shorter

http://www.active.com/running/Articles/Self-coaching_Tips_From_Olympian_Frank_Shorter.htm

HRE wrote:

From Shorter

http://www.active.com/running/Articles/Self-coaching_Tips_From_Olympian_Frank_Shorter.htm

Some great info there. Even simpler than what I thought. Sounds like he just focused on running a lot and figuring things out for himself. His training seemed really fluid with only one main rule: run a lot.

I think I might take this approach for training for my first half marathon. Just run as much as I can everyday and throw in some speed if needed.

I see myself as a pure strength runner though as evidenced by my PRs and the fact that I can hammer long runs easily but struggle to run much faster for 5k.

just RUN baby

What-up-Big-Daddy-WooWoo wrote:

os 1972 he trained 3 x day at altitude 8000feet in colorado. mileage was 170 week. equivalent to 200 at sea level.

I didn't know people converted to get more miles at altitude, that must be nice.

They are "Shorter Miles" heh

laughingostrich wrote:

What-up-Big-Daddy-WooWoo wrote:

os 1972 he trained 3 x day at altitude 8000feet in colorado. mileage was 170 week. equivalent to 200 at sea level.

I didn't know people converted to get more miles at altitude, that must be nice.

Running at its core is really very basic; if you train well and hard over a period of years and avoid injury, you are going to get better. I've always had a simple view of training for distance running: two hard interval sessions a week [for those in their prime] and one long run - 20 miles or two hours, whichever comes first. Every other run is aerobic and you do as much of that for volume as you can handle. Do that for two or three years and you'll get good.

--Frank Shorter

My sense is that most people who want to do the volume don't want to do the interval sessions.

Funny how Shorter said he couldn't fill a page with his training insight during his prime, but when he needed the money, he wrote this: http://www.amazon.com/Frank-Shorters-Running-Peak-Performance/dp/0756609518

Denver Runner, how do you manage the MP 11 to 13 and the HM 6 to 9 tempo both per week, along with the speed? MP for that long is tough! I have done that once in my life. And the HM tempo seems to me to be pretty close to as tough as a race, particularly at nine miles.

Did frank do any periodization?

That sounds like a Lindgren joke. Except he wouldn't have added the "heh" on the end because it ruins it.

The right plan is the plan that makes running a lot and dealing with it's challenges doable.

POD- you hit the nail on the head and that is our problem. U.S. runners should get together to train in groups but keep it simple. Run like Shorter and Rogers, etc did- a lot of running, simple workouts, relax and enjoy life in between.

Skip the "week" thing - use a 10 day program like most of the africans3 hard workouts plus a long run every 10 days

Denver Runner wrote:

I actually find that I need three harder workouts a week for HM and marathon training. A tempo (HM pace for 6-9 miles), a hills/intervals/repeats session (usually between 5k-10k pace), and a medium-long run (MP for 11-13 miles). Without the tempo, I can't hold a faster pace for more than about a 5k. Without the speed/hills session, I can't get to the speed I need. And without the medium-long run, the pace tends to deteriorate after about 10 miles.

Freud wrote:

Timdog wrote:

Has anyone ever trained with the simple plan that Shorter used? 2 workouts a week, one fast and one strength, as many easy miles in between, a long run, make your hard days hard, and your easy days easy. I like it because it's so simple, but was wondering if anyone has actually tried this?

most people have tried this...

almost all training programs, whether as simplified or not, follow this basic structure

The EA's do more than 2 workouts every wk

Or you could check Steve Ovett's training:

Sunday- AM 10 miles easy 60-65 min. PM 4 mi + 5 x 3 x 200m (27-28) with 30s and 3 min recoveries.

Monday- AM 5 miles 35 min. PM- 5 x 300 (avg 37.4) with 2 minutes rec.

Tuesday-AM 5 miles 35 min. PM- PARK. 6 X 700M loop with hills first half, large downhill to finish at 90% effort with 2 min rec. + 10 x 100m strides.

Wednesday-AM 5 miles PM- Technique work high knees etc. 5 x 150m (16-17) walk recovery. + 10 x 100m (11/13) change pace. + 4 x 60m standing start with 3 minutes recovery.

Thursday- AM- weights PM- PARK. workout. 6 x 30 seconds 90%, 10 min jog, 8 x 15s with walk recovery, focusing on good form.

Friday-AM 5 mi 35 min. PM 5 miles + 4 x 5x 100m (14-15) 30 seconds recovery decreasing to 5 seconds.

Saturday- AM PARK. 6 x 1000m with 30-60 seconds rec. PM 5 miles + 6 x 100m strides

Summer/ Competition Week:

Sunday- AM 10 miles easy 65 min. PM strides on grass. 10 x 100m (13-14)

Monday- 4 x 400m change pace. 200m at 28-29 then 23-24 with 5 minutrs recovery.

Tuesday- AM 5 miles 35 min. PM strides, 6 x 100m relaxed

Wednesday- rest

Thurs- Travel. Light day.

Friday- 30 minutes + strides

Saturday- Bislett Games- equalled WR.

courtesy 4 minute miler on here from Matt Paterson training diary on BMC site

From memory in his book frank suggested doing interval work after a year of aerobic work only. Can anyone confirm that please?

From memory in his book frank suggested doing interval work after a year of aerobic work only. Can anyone confirm that please?