Does Rupp rank behind only the great Henry Rono as all-time collegiate distance runners?

The times they are a changing. wrote: As far as Rono, his times are about equal to Rupp,.

You're f***ing nuts.

7:32, 8:05, 13:08, 27:22.

The 8:05 was by himself in a rainstorm. The 13:08 was in a dual meet on a hot afternoon in front of 200 people. He defeated the 10k WR holder, Samason Kimobwa, by almost a minute.

The times they are a changing. wrote:

When Ryun was running the WR's aren't as strong as they are today. Someone in college running a world record then was not as difficult as it would be today. Centro just ran one of the top 10 1500 times ever in college and it is still ten seconds off the WR, it is about as close to impossible as anything for a college student to run a WR in a distance race at this point. As far as Rono, his times are about equal to Rupp, although doing them 30 years ago is a little more impressive. But, he was also older than Rupp in college. I would have to call it even right now because you could counteract Rono's age and growing up in Kenya with Rupp's growing up in an altitude tent.

Wow, a well-thought out post

oliver klozoff wrote:

The times they are a changing. wrote:

When Ryun was running the WR's aren't as strong as they are today. Someone in college running a world record then was not as difficult as it would be today. Centro just ran one of the top 10 1500 times ever in college and it is still ten seconds off the WR, it is about as close to impossible as anything for a college student to run a WR in a distance race at this point. As far as Rono, his times are about equal to Rupp, although doing them 30 years ago is a little more impressive. But, he was also older than Rupp in college. I would have to call it even right now because you could counteract Rono's age and growing up in Kenya with Rupp's growing up in an altitude tent.

Wow, a well-thought out post

well, Rupp didn't grow up in an altitude tent, and since he has used them, he hasn't lived in them. that doesn't really matter anyway.

rupps ncaa career has faced some worthy opponents. a 5th yr. cheseret at ncaa 10K when rupp was a frosh? mcdougal in maybe the best race of mcdougals career in ncaa xc rupps junior year. mcdougal was certainly worth a mid 27:xx 10K at that point and rupp was running an abbreviated season after the world champs. and this year has been incredibly dominant. the fact that he seeminly owns chelanga, a 13:19-27:28 guy at every distance and cross country. and sam is by no means a choker.

the question here is are people looking more at where people were each year and titles, or where they ended up at the end of their college career.

that needs to be clarified. rupps aim to progress over time is proving out to be damn near genious considering how great he was out of high school and what he looks to be ready for this year. if he pulls off a dominating double at NCAA outdoors he'd at least have to be at #2 on my list. those are not weak fields he's going up against.

i think people forget, they suddenly look at rupp like he's expected to win everything in college and nothing less than domination is ok. a couple no less than 7 months ago people had still thought he would never win an ncaa title. take a look where chelanga would rank on the all time us 10K list:

10,000 METERS

27:13.98 Meb Keflezighi (Nik) 05/04/01

27:16.99 Abdi Abdirahman (Nik) 06/08/08

27:20.15 ----Keflezighi 05/03/02

27:20.56 Mark Nenow (Pum) 09/05/86

27:22.81 ----Abdirahman 05/28/06

27:24.10 ----Keflezighi 04/30/04

27:25.61 Alberto Salazar (AW) 06/26/82

27:28.80 ----Nenow 07/05/86

27:29.06 ----Salazar 07/09/82

27:29.16 Craig Virgin (FRRT) 07/17/80

…………………………………………………………………………………..

27:31.34 Todd Williams (adi) 04/06/95

27:33.48 Galen Rupp (Or) 04/29/07

27:33.93 Alan Culpepper (adi) 05/04/01

27:34.72 Alan Webb (Nik) 04/30/06

27:35.65 Dathan Ritzenhein (Co) 04/30/06

only 4 individuals have ever run faster than sam (galen of course can so 5). to be in college and dominating a guy who would be the 4th or 5th fastest american over 10K is pretty big. personally I think if galen goes to europe this summer he goes straight to the top of this list and is the first american to get into 27:0X. he'd probably be one of the few to get under 13:05 if he gets in a fast 5K as well. that might seal the deal on who's the greatest collegiate.

Count Chocula wrote:

He will get lapped at Brussels.

So you're saying the winner will go sub 26:00?

Not that your point is wrong, but that's 5 Americans faster than Sam's time -- Meb, Abdi, Nenow, Salazar, Virgin -- and 6 if you consider Rupp capable of it too.

I thought Sam ran 27:28?

Oh, I thought the dividing line was inserted to show where Sam's time lined up. That's my mistake then.

27:28.48 just ahead of nenow, so that'd be 4 ahead of him, 5 if you count rupp.

oliver klozoff wrote:

I thought Sam ran 27:28?

Non-Hoosier wrote:

Oh, I thought the dividing line was inserted to show where Sam's time lined up. That's my mistake then.

Likely a top 10 times line.

FINDER KEEPER wrote:

27:28.48

just ahead of nenow, so that'd be 4 ahead of him, 5 if you count rupp.

Does not read charts very well. How is Chelinga ahead of Nenow?

While I think Rupp is an amazing runner and surely one of the best to grace the collegiate ranks, he hasn't won an Outdoor NCAA title. His name doesn't belong in this conversation.

A more appropriate conversation might be whether Galen's 2008-2009 year is the best one in history (dominating XC victory, Olympic finals, Collegiate Indoor record, etc.).

But there are a lot of NCAA athletes who have been more dominating on the NCAA than Galen Rupp.

Who's Chelinga? :-)

Arkansas wrote:

But there are a lot of NCAA athletes who have been more dominating on the NCAA than Galen Rupp.

his last 4 ncaa attempts have been stomp down easy victories. he beat milers over the mile on the dmr to win it easily. beat 13:19 and a several sub 13:30 guys easily, and just ran away from sub 7:50 guys in the 3K and jogged in. we know who he manipulated at ncaa cross. he didn't run last year at outdoors, else his string of victories might have started then.

i understand the point about him not having any in his underclassmen years (though 3 runner ups) but the total domination of this year (likely 6 in one year) while having the burden of team victores to keep in mind has to place him up there in my mind. obviously we can all have our own opinions on what it means to be up there.

people mention Godfrey from arkansas, but imagine if Rupp was in college back then. might have a several more championships under his belt before his 4th or 5th year.

times have to play a part in this debate as well as the level of competition.

Again, I understand the argument. Rupp has run 27:3x and he's a stud. But he hasn't won an NCAA outdoor title so how can we say he's one of the greatest ever? Godfrey won XC twice (not to mention outdoors). But I wouldn't mention him in this conversation either.

A name like Falcon (I think around 7 titles) would be worth mentioning, as well as the UTEP contingent or even Prefontaine (who won quite a few titles).

Again, no argument that Rupp's 2008-2009 year might be the best one on the books. Or I would even say his Indoor NCAA meet is probably the best NCAA distance performance ever. But Rupp didn't dominate until after the Olympics. He was a contender from the beginning, of course, but I still don't consider his one of the All-Time Best NCAA runners.

this makes a lot of sense. out of curiousity, what were falcons titles in (which events?). one thing that i think is worth looking at, and rono would certainly stay on top here, is the range at which guys have won ncaa titles.

rupp has cross, dmr mile, 3K, 5K and will most likely add another 5K as well as 10K to his name. that's pretty impressive.

rupp would be a contender to win the 1500 this spring and it's a studly field. he's the favorite in the 5K & 10K. that's pretty damn impressive consdidering in order to win each of these events (for rupp) you'd have to beat 3:36, 13:19 & 27:28 guys.

i understand you are really just counting the outdoor titles (or lack thereof) at this point, but i don't think anyone could have taken him in the 10K last track season if he had raced it (hence his top collegiate finish at oly trials and top american finish at the games over 27:16 teammate abdi).

he really should have run away with the title 2 years ago but he let it come to a sit and kick since he had run a handful of 5K's and 10K's that spring and was trying to save something for the U.S. champs, which he did.

regardless, you're right, he doesn't have one outdoor championship title to speak for.

how do the two international teams factor into this debate (and likely a 3rd this summer)?

The fact that Ryun isn't figuring more prominently in this conversation shows one of the biases of this board. Namely that the longer the race the more respect it gets around here.

music ra999 wrote:

Even Fernandez has the world junior indoor mile wr, though less contested by a lot of young Africans its still a wr of some sort.

World Jr. Indoor records don't exist. Imaginary records are records of "some sort," I guess.

As a collegiate runner Rupp ranks behind Rono.

For guys with bad personalities I'd say it's a toss up.

If my aunt had a package she'd be my uncle. What's that matter?Record against your peers counts for a lot, maybe the most in considering greatness. If you can't even beat your peers consistently then you're not that great.

seeing it right wrote:

Arkansas wrote:

But there are a lot of NCAA athletes who have been more dominating on the NCAA than Galen Rupp.

people mention Godfrey from arkansas, but imagine if Rupp was in college back then. might have a several more championships under his belt before his 4th or 5th year.

times have to play a part in this debate as well as the level of competition.